Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#221

Post by Aloha » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:39 PM UTC

cglee wrote: post #130

akerl_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have considered him a worse person if he'd done that. I disagree with his opinions on marriage, but he has the right to have those opinions, and to provide support for causes he believes in. I'm not shocked the he is stepping down, or that others in the organization appear to have applied substantial pressure on him to do so, but it makes me sad. Their statements about supporting freedom of speech are hollow:…

Not sure why people always bring up "freedom of speech" in these types of scenarios. You can say what you want without going to jail; that's freedom of speech. It doesn't mean you won't feel social consequences.

I'm an openly gay male, I came out at 15.

Why should there be social or employment consequences - in my mind this is just as bad as when employers fire employees for being gay.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#222

Post by DEinspanjer » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:40 PM UTC

conkrete wrote: post #69

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

In business the "Mob" is usually right. If the mob of people are saying they won't buy into your product, you usually conform to the mob.

True, but Mozilla does not typically operate as a standard business. They have a different goal, and that goal and quite frequently be at odds with the "mob". The majority of people and certainly the political inclination of the day is taking power and freedom away from people in the context of the Web. If Mozilla went with the mob rule instead of the smaller but passionate group that feel that is wrong, it would quickly be just like every other browser vendor out there, and it wouldn't be attempting to make a difference in the web, despite whether it is the most profitable stance.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#223

Post by MrZongle2 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:40 PM UTC

sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

I don't know about that -- I saw a lot of vitriol amongst the anti-Eich crowd in the last couple of weeks.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#224

Post by spikels » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:40 PM UTC

27182818284 wrote: post #25

Holy crap, I thought the OKCupid thing was an April Fool's joke. I had no idea. Whoa.

Not a joke, possibly heartfelt, but certainly a great marketing coup for IAC.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#225

Post by matthewmacleod » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:40 PM UTC

benjohnson wrote: post #29

"our large, global, and diverse community is what makes Mozilla special" Apparently diversity is narrower today.

Diversity as a concept cannot legitimately be defined to include intolerance as an attribute to be protected. Swap out "anti-gay-marriage" for "racist" or "anti-semitic" – it would be difficult to argue that calling for the resignation of an active campaigner against racial equality was "anti-diversity"; the same applies here.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#226

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

I'm kind of confused why a software project has to have any values about gay marriage. Should they also have values about abortion, gun control, marijuana legalization, single-payer healthcare, contraceptive funding, stem-cell research, fracking? You know, we have a lot of hot button topics here and a lot of groups who would like nothing more than make national news by attaching themselves to something or somebody famous and making a nice juicy controversy. Having nothing to do with what Mozilla foundation was supposed to do, but who cares?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#227

Post by thinkpad20 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #60

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

It speaks to the fact that he really, truly feels that way... which is a big problem. Sticking to your beliefs is not a virtue if your beliefs are reprehensible.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#228

Post by rossjudson » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #67

andrewcooke wrote: post #30

i've stood my ground for my beliefs when people were ridiculing me for doing so. it's a lonely position to be in. i didn't share eich's views here, but he's free to have them, and the reason for the problem is, ironically, the intolerance of other people (people forcing their "tolerance" down his throat). he has my respect. not for his view on gays. but for staying true to what he did. i think this is a shame.

Except he didn't stand his ground at all. He never once explained his beliefs. If he had done that I think people would've been a lot more tolerant of him. I don't think it had to end this way.

Sure it did. The knives were out.

Is it a requirement to explain what you believe? You can't just state it? I mean, there's no rational reason to oppose gay marriage, so attempting to rationalize it just comes off sounding stupid. Should we force a person to say stupid things?

Maybe what you mean is to demand a conversation. Forcing someone to participate in a conversation doesn't seem right either.

Does a person have the right to be close-minded?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#229

Post by bluthru » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

Beliavsky wrote: post #15

From the article: "We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public." Clearly people with socially conservative views are not welcome at Mozilla.

This is classic "Stop oppressing my oppression!"

If you don't want to be treated differently for treating people differently, you can't treat people differently.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#230

Post by balls187 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

I feel like this could have been completely avoided if Brendan Eich said "I'm sorry. I was wrong. I supported a cause that I no longer believe in."

Since that was in 2008, and people can change their opinions & beliefs.

This assumes of course, he no longer believes that marriage only applies to straight couples.