Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wrong again. http://www.americannaziparty.com
That is not the Nazi Party though, is it?
For the purposes of the parent's argument, it's just fine. And you know it.
Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
221–230 of 258 posts
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uh, no. Political views are - presumably - matters of choice. Also, they're prone to regular change. In both regards, they are categorically different from distinctions of gender, race, orientation, etc.
Getting a sex change operation is a matter of choice, too.
Regular change. Can you not read?
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are they not treating Brendan Eich equally? He's the bigot here who wants to deny them happiness, not the other way around.
They're discriminating against him on the basis of his political stance, trying to start up a witch hunt or mob against him, and trying to disenfranchise him of his employment. They're bigots, pure and simple, and so is everyone who defends them.
stop marginalizing this issue by calling it a "political stance." Hitler's "political stance" was to get rid of jews. Political stances affect real lives. Get your head out of your ass.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is not a personal matter. It's a public issue. For example, there are plenty of Arab businesses that boycott Israel and their products. Are they mixing work and personal issue?
It's not a public issue. He didn't support the anti-gay marriage bill as a representative of Mozilla. He did it in his free time and as a SINGLE person. I absolutely DO NOT agree with him, but that has nothing to do with Mozilla or his professional work. I don't support either boycotting any Israel company, but if that company supports Israel apartheid by any means, then yes, I do support its boycotting. And if Eich…
It's not as clear-cut as you suggest. You can't just draw lines between his role as CEO of a company and his public stance on an issue and call them separate. It does affect the company and the impression that other employees get. It affects the company culture. It on one hand makes homosexual employees feel that the CEO despises their lifestyle so much, that he's publicly willing to donate to not allow them to lead it. On the other hand, it enables the bullies to take this as a green light since their values (based on hate) reflect that of the CEO.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weighed in the balance: 1. the right of gay people to get married 2. our personal right to pay money to bigots using specific money-transfer services I'll be honest, I keep re-rolling, and it keeps coming up 1. What am I doing wrong?
I would say that this is a false dichotomy. If said organizations are bigoted but legal 1) and 2) can co-exist peacefully if the app/service makes their value statement very clear from the outset about what sort of organizations they want to serve. It is the sudden suspension of an app or service based on personal decisions that I think is unprofessional. To give a better example of why this would affect you as a thi…
I would be ecstatic if the businesses I chose to deal with had such principles, yes, and would gladly join their boycott. We are all involved in the civil rights "debate", whether we like it or not.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's against employment equality... Is it though? Are homophobes a protected class? Would a company be forced at the point of a lawsuit to hire a goose-stepping neo-Nazi if he or she had impeccable credentials?
Should companies be allowed to deny jobs to communists? To people belonging to Muslim Brotherhood party of Egypt? To members of Greece's Golden Dawn? To freemasons? To members of German American Bund in 1939? Hiring is supposed to be done according to credentials and explicitly ignoring belonging to a political party - and there shouldn't be any differences between major parties such as Democrats and minor parties su…
But for a CEO, group memberships could easily be seen as part of his or her qualifications. I would see nothing wrong with boycotting a company that hired a neo-Nazi CEO, and I see nothing wrong with boycotting a company that hires a homophobic CEO.
No one is demanding that Brendan Eich be forced by the government to step down, they're doing things the market way, by speaking out and using whatever economic power they have.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's against employment equality... Is it though? Are homophobes a protected class? Would a company be forced at the point of a lawsuit to hire a goose-stepping neo-Nazi if he or she had impeccable credentials?
Is gay a protected class then? If the answer is no, then homophobes is not a protected class. If the answer is yes, then homophobes is a protected class in your definition. Will I want to work with someone who is pro-Nazism? Probably not, but will I respect his belief? Yes. But will I use that to disqualify him from being my co-worker? No. I would be lying to say I wouldn't feel threaten to know I am working with som…
I don't think that's how protected classes work. "Person of color" is a protected class. "Racist" is not. "Christian" is (perhaps, I'm not sure) a protected class. "Person who hates Christians" is not.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Let's play an intellectual game. Is it possible to imagine a sensible reason for Eich to hold the view he and others hold? If you are unable to imagine such a reason, it is because you are misunderstanding that position. Why is it that we have to imagine their reasons, when they cannot bother to imagine our reasons? *I can actually "imagine" some of their reasons, my dad is a rabid fundamentalist and is very anti-ga…
We must be willing to consider another's position even if we perceive their unwillingness to consider ours. To do otherwise is a recipe for ignorance and stalemate. Do we really think Eich hates all gay people? Do we really think his position is as simple as, "Well, I irrationally hate all gay people, therefore, I voted for Prop 8"? I propose to you that Eich holds his position for reasons that are sensible to him, a…
You do realize that you're going against what you just described as "moral fashion". Brave or suicidal? My advice: when going against current, use a throw away account, like me. Even when describing this, people are still thinking you're taking a stance :) humanity at its worse. Stupidity at its best.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
We must be willing to consider another's position even if we perceive their unwillingness to consider ours. To do otherwise is a recipe for ignorance and stalemate. Do we really think Eich hates all gay people? Do we really think his position is as simple as, "Well, I irrationally hate all gay people, therefore, I voted for Prop 8"? I propose to you that Eich holds his position for reasons that are sensible to him, a…
You do realize that you're going against what you just described as "moral fashion". Brave or suicidal? My advice: when going against current, use a throw away account, like me. Even when describing this, people are still thinking you're taking a stance :) humanity at its worse. Stupidity at its best.
As Paul Graham wisely pointed out, when the Inquisition demands to know, "Are you with us or against us?", it is safe to say, "Neither."
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#230I find it fascinating how so many people are content to crucify Mozilla for appointing as a CEO a man who had the sheer gall to contribute to a PAC opposing gay marriage.
Yet every time Rand Paul gets brought up his own opposition to same-sex marriage doesn't seem to draw 2 separate 200+ comment HN threads dedicated to how morally bankrupt he is. Is that simply because opposing the NSA is more morally noble than building an open browser that we feel inclined to overlook his baggage?
Better yet, what about people who support the Republican Party. As recently as April 2013 (i.e. not even a year ago) the Republican Party re-affirmed (unanimously) their opposition to same-sex marriage in their party platform. If you donate to or support a GOP candidate you are opposing gay marriage just as surely as if you'd funded Prop. 8 yourself.
It's for this reason that it's very important to separate a person's own political preferences from professional duties to the extent possible.
And since I apparently have to be worried about pitchforks I'll pre-emptively make clear: I'm proud to support, and have supported, equality of gay marriage rights.