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Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

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221–230 of 480 posts

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#221
post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

Thanks for jumping in. It's great to get 'the other side'.

That said, where I checking out, my eye gravitates toward that big red 'Continue Checkout' button, not the fact that I'm signing up for $479.40 a year. A more blunt but upfront UX would hit them with interstitials.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#222
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came to say this. I can smell class action against JustFab.

Actually, when you agree to the terms of service, you conveniently waive the right to participate in a class-action lawsuit. Source: http://www.justfab.com/index.cfm?action=home.terms_and_condi...

No, actually, that never holds in court.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#223
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't have been downvoted here, but the mob has been angered! I'd encourage you to ignore the insults and consider carefully the other feedback - there are some good points made here by people coming to the pages for the first time. Re your point above, What they could do which is very simple is to change the button text to 'Subscribe'. If you'd be reluctant to do that, ask yourself why that is? Why can't you…

The German site is a nice example how it should be done! Kudos!

The German site is definitely less misleading than the US site but I wouldn't say it's a nice example for how it should be done. I think the list in the VIP checkout column is missing information about the monthly charges (€39,95? - not sure that's what they are charging in Germany since, well, the site is unclear).

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#224
post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

Given that you've taken the time to explain all of this to the HN community, I can't help but wonder why you don't encourage JustFab to use this as a good PR opportunity. If, as you claim, the majority of users are happy the subscription-based model, surely the best way to nip this in the bud is to simply refund the money to the OP's girlfriend.

The only reason why I would think that you don't want to extend that olive branch is because you are afraid that it will set a precedence for other JustFab users, and that JustFab will be engulfed with refund requests. This however flies in the face of your firm believe that the majority of JustFab users are extremely happy with the services provided.

So, in a nutshell, instead of disputing whether or not the VIP subscription requirement is "scammy" or not, I would think that you would advocate the shortest route to conclusion in this case: refund the money.

In my eyes, anything less is simply vindication of the concerns outlined in this discussion thread.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#225
post #150
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Josh, it's good of you to step up and have this discussion. It seems that justfab is using a Conversion Rate Optimisation trick that you're either not aware of or that you're deliberately downplaying. Put simply, the UI is set to have VIP membership activation default to ON. Those people who are not paying attention will not read the information in the right hand side bar, will check out and will mistakenly purcha…

Very well said. I agree entirely - there should be a concrete change as a result of this thread. It's impossible for a reasonable person to read the opinions of the well informed people here and continue to think that everything's A-ok. This is an opportunity to prove your ethical bona fides, jdh.

If you look at their profile on consumeraffairs.com [1], you'll find a ton of complaints about this VIP program on the first page alone. In fact, the company replies repeatedly with a canned response.

They are well, well aware of what they are doing. If they do change anything, it will not be because they have been suddenly educated or even found morality. It will be because the sunlight is so bright that they fear for their ability to continue to profit.

[1] http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/justfab.html

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#226
Interesting that I don't see these kind of complaints at this level about book clubs.

The most popular book clubs all use a negative response model, where when you sign up you get a certain number of books at a great price, and agree to buy a certain number of additional books at the regular club price.

They send you a monthly list of books available that month, with one marked as that month's featured selection.

If you do nothing, you automatically receive the featured selection and are charged for it at the regular club price. If you do not want the featured selection, you tell them via a return card or their website.

An example is the Science Fiction Book Club [1]. The front page has a link to a "how it works" page [2]. Note that the "how it works" page doesn't actually tell you about the negative response aspect. It tells you to read the membership agreement for complete details and links to the agreement [3]. It is in there that you get the details of automatically receiving the featured selection.

(Things are similar for the Book of the Month Club, the Scientific American Book Club, and a whole bunch of others--because they are all actually run by the same company, and are using the same template for their web sites. The Columbia House DVD Club too).

Compare this to the JustFab page. That too has a "how it works" page [4], which is linked to from the front page. That page tells you about the negative response part.

The front page of the book club does say, when touting the initial book offer, that it is "with membership", so it is clear on the front page that you are going to probably have to sign up for some kind of membership to get that deal. The JustFab page does not make it clear that you must become a member to purchase.

With the book club, if you fail to make your negative response, you get a book not of your choosing. With JustFab, you get a credit that you can use on an item of your choosing. My guess is that the vast majority of JustFab's customers buy several times a year, and so they are able to fairly quickly put the credit to use.

So why does JustFab draw so much more fire, when the seem ostensibly quite similar to the book club? I wonder if the fact that their subscription if for credits makes a big difference? The book club pushes a featured selection each month, presumably something they have made a volume deal for in order to get a good price. For this to work, they really need their featured selections to sell well. With JustFab, the credit is generic. If they need to push some specific item in order to support a good price for it, selling credits does not help. Would people find JustFab more acceptable if instead of a credit, they actually sent you an item once a month?

[1] http://www.sfbc.com

[2] http://www.sfbc.com/howitworks

[3] http://www.sfbc.com/membership-agreement

[4] http://www.justfab.com/how-justfab-works.htm

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't have been downvoted here, but the mob has been angered! I'd encourage you to ignore the insults and consider carefully the other feedback - there are some good points made here by people coming to the pages for the first time. Re your point above, What they could do which is very simple is to change the button text to 'Subscribe'. If you'd be reluctant to do that, ask yourself why that is? Why can't you…

I would not be surprised if German law forbids the buy-and-subscribe trick. I would LOVE to hear about the German profit's of this company.

> I would not be surprised if German law forbids the buy-and-subscribe trick.

It doesn't, but it mandates actual costs to be displayed very clearly. This is relatively recent, though - probably as a result of the very successful Jamba/Jamster ringtone scam business that used exactly the same mechanism in the early 2000s.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#228

Every single person who has been misled into signing up for a recurring charge should do this one thing: Dispute the charge with their credit card company. You'll get your money back and it will issue a bunch of chargebacks to JustFab, which will penalize them financially. If enough people complain their penalties will escalate and their credit card processing rates will go through the roof. This is how the credit ca…

Totally not the case that you get your money back, at least with WellsFargo Visa, they will investigate to determine whether your card was used by some other party.

Saying, "I didn't read the terms of the agreement" is not grounds for a chargeback.

What's worse is when you've signed up for a One year recurring payment and you have to jump through hoops to cancel such as a registered letter to cancel.

Wells fargo will refuse to cancel for you, saying it is between you and the vendor. Further to that, you can't even cancel your credit card, as Wells Fargo will transfer the recurring charge to a new card.

About the only way I could figure out how to get out of that type of recurring scam is to just cancel my bank account.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#229
post #42
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading. The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program. The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious. By giving the screen…

I don't accept the word "misleading" -- I do not believe the page in any way misleads. It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english. Could they put the subscription details in bold? Could they use a larger font than all the other text? Sure. It's a tradeoff, for sure, and every retailer has to optimize their site to perform. Could they pop up three boxes afte…

"It does not try to position it as anything other than a subscription, and the language is plain english."

Except the page you highlight doesn't use the word "subscription". I wonder why not?

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#230
post #164
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lent legitimacy of VC funding. Does VC funding really lend legitimacy to anyone except other VCs?

Sure, someone public who was given lots of money by big institutions voted for it with their money. There are a lot of fly by night operations doing this kind of thing, not many VC funded ones that I'm aware of.

> voted for it with their money.

That is "voted for its likelihood to generate profits or be acquired at a high valuation". That's not exactly equivalent to my definition of "legitimacy".

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