Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps. I just worry about it being like insulting the person serving your food. Tack needs to be used.
Indeed, you might need to try a different tact.
:)
Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
221–227 of 227 posts
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
In high school (in the early 2000s, in the US), class participation didn't mean just answering a question when called on, in my school most of the time it meant preemptively offering an answer without being called on. You got graded on having the initiative to answer without the teacher asking you directly.
If someone tried that here in Brazil everyone would get a zero. Specially, because they link someone posted about Richard Feynman is still very true, most students here don't know jack shit beside what they memorized, the genius wannabes quickly get stomped when they say crap and others laugh at them. Schools here are best teach you how to be conforming to social expectations... at best. Also I like to point out that…
Just to give an example of what speeder means by "students here don't know jack shit":
Over the years I have told friends and peers that, in a perfect vacuum and without taking into account the curvature of the earth, a bullet fired from a gun that's completely level and another bullet dropped from the same height, at the same time, will hit the ground at the same time. Everyone disagrees, says that of course the bullet from the gun will take much longer to fall etc, etc. Now, this is all people who went to private schools and had three (yes, three) years of physics (because if you go to high school here and your school is not a shitty public one, you will have physics for 3 years. You can't choose). I even argued with a friend of mine who is a geologist and works at Brazil's huge oil company Petrobras. You might say "oh, a couple of people, that's anecdote". Yes, it is, but it is just a couple of people because after the fifth I just said "screw it", no one learns physics here.
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#223As a long-time teacher in multiple countries, I've also had this concern. I realize it's a fairly heretical belief to hold on this site but I think boys are systematically discriminated against in most western societies. As a child that teachers (nearly all women) tended to be biased against boys and downright dismissive of male dominated interests such as science fiction, video games or arm-wrestling. Talking with s…
> In fact the amazingly good hacker school I went to charges men $2000 more than women. Is that even legal?
It's de-facto legal at the very least. AFIK all the schools do that. Actually, it looks like mine just gives $1k off for women and certain minorities. There were several students I talked to who paid 2k less than me, but I'm not sure what the reason was. The tuition price doesn't appear to have been consistent in the beginning.
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sad that I need a throwaway account to talk about this, but such is life. Spend some time doing searches on terms like "gender grading gap" and reading the recent research. What you find may surprise you, is consistent across multiple Western democracies, and can be summarized thusly: * When assessment is left to teachers, there is a grading gap in favor of girls; girls receive grades that are inflated relative to th…
I'm confused about a so called achievement gap when men still hold the majority of highest paying and most powerful jobs in the country. I'd truly like to understand what you mean by this.
I'm confused by what seems to be a non-sequitur. I'm talking about educational achievement, and there is an absolute, well-documented and undeniable gap there.
While it's true that within the highest ranks of Western society, gender plays a significant role, it's also true that socioeconomic background -- "class", for lack of a better word -- has a sunlight-to-candle relationship to gender in terms of getting into those ranks in the first place. Western society has drastically limited mobility right now, and the highest ranks are, unfortunately, more conservative in their views on gender.
And as an aside, there's a good example of a broader application of Kleinfeld's thesis there. Men dominate at the extreme high end, but also at the extreme low end. Efforts toward true equality need to address the root cause of that, which has more to do with rigid gender roles imposed on both men and women than with outright favoring of men over women.
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm confused about a so called achievement gap when men still hold the majority of highest paying and most powerful jobs in the country. I'd truly like to understand what you mean by this.
I'm confused by what seems to be a non-sequitur. I'm talking about educational achievement, and there is an absolute, well-documented and undeniable gap there. While it's true that within the highest ranks of Western society, gender plays a significant role, it's also true that socioeconomic background -- "class", for lack of a better word -- has a sunlight-to-candle relationship to gender in terms of getting into th…
You said: "This has ramifications all the way up the system, including an achievement gap which starts early and only grows with each milestone."
And I say, I do not understand how this achievement gap, as you call it, actually matters or is holding men back when men hold most of the advanced degrees, and wealth in this society. I don't think you need a throwaway account to discuss this stuff so long as everyone stays calm.
Meanwhile, you're spot on in my opinion about the role of class as well as gender. This is very true. It's also why the "right" way of doing many things is so often a "male" way of doing things, accepted as the default. They are absolutely interconnected and probably inseparable. Most feminists will absolutely agree that rigid gender roles hurt men and women, and we want everyone to fulfill their potential, and not be stuck in those roles.
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm confused by what seems to be a non-sequitur. I'm talking about educational achievement, and there is an absolute, well-documented and undeniable gap there. While it's true that within the highest ranks of Western society, gender plays a significant role, it's also true that socioeconomic background -- "class", for lack of a better word -- has a sunlight-to-candle relationship to gender in terms of getting into th…
You said: "This has ramifications all the way up the system, including an achievement gap which starts early and only grows with each milestone." And I say, I do not understand how this achievement gap, as you call it, actually matters or is holding men back when men hold most of the advanced degrees, and wealth in this society. I don't think you need a throwaway account to discuss this stuff so long as everyone stay…
I do not understand how this achievement gap, as you call it, actually matters or is holding men back when men hold most of the advanced degrees, and wealth in this society.
Well, at the moment women are earning more bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and yes, even Ph.Ds than men. That doesn't immediately erase a pre-existing gap among the older generations, but it does tell us that in the future we still won't have equality -- we'll have simply replaced one gap by another.
The goal really ought to be to start raising generation after generation of kids where boys and girls are equal in educational opportunity and achievement. We've thus far failed at that goal, and I don't truly understand how someone can call themself "feminist" whilst thinking that's not something that "actually matters".
The prevalence of people who do call themself "feminist" and hold such beliefs is why I shelter in my warm, snug anonymity. Pointing out such contradictions does not typically result in calm discussions.
Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
You said: "This has ramifications all the way up the system, including an achievement gap which starts early and only grows with each milestone." And I say, I do not understand how this achievement gap, as you call it, actually matters or is holding men back when men hold most of the advanced degrees, and wealth in this society. I don't think you need a throwaway account to discuss this stuff so long as everyone stay…
I do not understand how this achievement gap, as you call it, actually matters or is holding men back when men hold most of the advanced degrees, and wealth in this society. Well, at the moment women are earning more bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and yes, even Ph.Ds than men. That doesn't immediately erase a pre-existing gap among the older generations, but it does tell us that in the future we still won't hav…
> The goal really ought to be to start raising generation after generation of kids where boys and girls are equal in educational opportunity and achievement.
There are two very different goals stated there and they may not be compatible.