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US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

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Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more activists. And without them, we are fucked. You can change the system from within as well. While it is impractical to go out and run for President and hope to win, one of the things I hope the current crop of young adults will see is that they have the power to become the system and change it. First build a resume in public service (city council, county supervisor, state representative) then use your tra…

I didn't mind what you said until you brought in the horrible example of the tea party. Even ignoring its political message it was pretty much all astroturf, pumped up and hyped by established players. A few election cycles later it's pretty much gone.

I appreciate that the example can be distasteful. However, I have looked into the astro-turfing dismissal argument as well.

Generally, astro-turfing (the use of a PR engine to create the appearance of grass roots support) is designed to get a candidate elected (or issue passed) that favors the money financing the campaign. We have seen a number of these in California and there has consistently been a strong correlation between benefit and later funding source analysis.

However, some really earnest but ineffective people were elected under the guise of the 'tea party'. Much to the disgust of the Republican Party power infrastructure (the speaker of the house cannot count on all of his own party's votes for that reason). Generally, power interests that are trying to manipulate the system don't throw random people into the mix like that.

My conclusion after looking at the folks who were elected that way is that a large number of them, perhaps the majority of them, were elected by people fed up with the system and not an interested third party.

But lets set that aside for a moment. Lets say you and your friends can get elected to city government. If your city runs well, and you don't put up with the baloney that sometimes passes as politics these days, you can parley that into county government. And that into state government. Assuming that you are good enough to learn the skills you need to make that trip. It can take you 6 - 10 years to go from city supervisor to state representative. Once enough people around you know who you are, you can chose to focus on local elections or national ones.

The starting point though is that in order for this to work someone with the idea of doing public service to serve the public and not their own interests has to step forward. Waiting for someone else to step forward has never been a good idea, either seeking out people and supporting their efforts or putting your hat in yourself are the workable choices.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#222
I think what worries me the most is reading between the lines. As in, "we've already been doing this, it should work, please make it legal." Would be interesting if the bill had retroactive legalese.

Additionally, can consumers claim DMCA violations?

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#223
post #141
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#5 Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.)... was the one thing that legally purchased media had an undeniable edge in over pirated media. Disagreed. Sony rootkit was on the legally purchased media. DRM on streaming services can do all kind of stuff without users consent. DRM built into hardware with cameras can do even weirder stuff (just note the crazy DRM idea patented by Microsoft regarding detecting the p…

I think that was the OP's point really. But you're right in that it has already happened with DRM - rootkits are just the natural next step in this direction.

"It has already happened" means it was discovered. Since DRM is by definition obscured, we don't know what wasn't found. Insecurity and malicious code is to be expected from it. Their attempt to legalize it only reveals their original intentions.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#224
This sort of thing is an externality, like pollution: it compromise rights of persons other than the companies' willing customers.

Suppose I don't have any Hollywood stuff on my PC, am I then immune from the poison-ware? Can you easily recover costs if you are falsely accused? People must remain unaffected unless they are successfully sued or convicted, in a court with proper procedures and evidence.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#225
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a more modern version, VM just won't be able to support a hardware-assisted DRM conveniently preinstalled straight into your CPU or video card's firmware. Hmm. This leads me to the idea. Why care for software rootkits when PCIe hardware may actively screw with the system? Considering MAFIAA already had success with enforcing HDCP on almost every modern video card out there...

I actually just read a book set in 2040 England where this basically happened, they'd created a system where if you tried to remove the hardware the CPU would be dissolved. The book was called "Pirate [something]" I can't remember the exact name but it had pirate in it...

The best I could do after a lot of searching (lots of books with pirate in the title): http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Cinema-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765329...

Your description sounds good. This book doesn't sound that good but it is future England, has to do with computers has pirate in the title.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#226
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a more modern version, VM just won't be able to support a hardware-assisted DRM conveniently preinstalled straight into your CPU or video card's firmware. Hmm. This leads me to the idea. Why care for software rootkits when PCIe hardware may actively screw with the system? Considering MAFIAA already had success with enforcing HDCP on almost every modern video card out there...

I actually just read a book set in 2040 England where this basically happened, they'd created a system where if you tried to remove the hardware the CPU would be dissolved. The book was called "Pirate [something]" I can't remember the exact name but it had pirate in it...

[deleted]

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#227
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not actually true. The colonies could have received the things they wanted had they actually attempted to fight for them (and by 'things they wanted', I mean the things we wrote about England (and specifically a king with little political power at that time (it was all parliament's by that point)) not giving us). The American Revolutionary War was started because of political activism. They saw a chance to start a ne…

I think you're misunderstanding me. It's my claim that any sufficiently profitable colony sufficiently far away from its mother country will inevitably cease to be a part of said mother country. The how is irrelevant.

The how isn't irrelevant, especially when the colony in question ceased being a party of the mother country because of opportunists who thought that it would be fun to start a new country built in whatever manner they pleased. Without our specific set of malcontents the Revolutionary War wouldn't have occurred and the US would have been given a voice in parliament.

Your claim is wrong.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#228
http://ipcommission.org/report/IP_Commission_Report_052213.p...

> The Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property > With U.S. companies suffering losses and American workers losing jobs

Jobs. Translation: this is a PR piece.

> The Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, and law enforcement agencies should have the legal authority to use threat-based deterrence systems that operate at network speed against unauthorized intrusions into national security and critical infrastructure networks

Huh? This includes national security now? Are they deliberately blurring the lines between pirating and national security? Why I think so.

> Informed deliberations over whether corporations and individuals should be legally able to conduct threat-based deterrence operations against network intrusion, without doing undue harm to an attacker or to innocent third parties, ought to be undertaken.

They want to legalize Sony's rootkit, but they want to do it right. Rootkits in the wild cannot be tamed, don't even go there.

> if counterattacks against hackers were legal, there are many techniques that companies could employ that would cause severe damage to the capability of those conducting IP theft.

You do something that the system thinks is pirating and your computer blows up. What could go wrong.

> ...The Commission is not ready to endorse this recommendation because of the larger questions of collateral damage caused by computer attacks

Ahh I see, they're reasonable after all! IOW, they want to make their rootkit legalization idea sound sane.

> Recommend to Congress and the administration that U.S. funding to the World Health Organization (WHO) program budget in whole or in part be withheld

At this point I want to punch someone in the face.

I can't read anymore.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked MS was still in business. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sony_BMG_copy_prot...

This was done without MS active involvement. Microsoft signing a piece of code in wild that can subvert their own secure boot ... is something else entirely.

In fact, as that Wikipedia article points out, it was exposed by a Microsoft employee:

The scandal erupted on October 31, 2005, when Microsoft researcher Mark Russinovich posted to his blog a detailed description and technical analysis of F4I's XCP software that he ascertained had been recently installed on his computer by a Sony BMG music CD. Russinovich compared the software to a rootkit due to its surreptitious installation and its efforts to hide its existence. He noted that the EULA does not mention the software, and he asserted emphatically that the software is illegitimate and that digital rights management had "gone too far".

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#230
This is more FUD for the pro-piracy crowd to get their panties in a twist over. The root kit is obviously an unrealistic idea though the network idea is a bit more realistic but I seriously doubt either will go anywhere.

This is our fault though. We have these companies that sell us digital recordings of media we want at a price they've chosen. We found a way to circumvent the buying process and get it free. This is simply not okay. We can debate how fair artists get treated, the price of media, and whether or not distributing copyrighted materials online is technically stealing all day long but in the end any rational person sees this is wrong.

So while we infringe on the copyright holders rights for years any time they try to take steps to curb this behavior (which is on a scale way larger than other types of black markets and impossible to ignore) we act shocked and appalled as if we've dont nothing to instigate it. Each time they fail to curb piracy they come back with an even more deplorable plan to stop it. In the end we're all losing, both the media companies and the consumers.

I still can't understand why anyone would think piracy is okay. I've done it myself but I know its wrong. Using reasons like region availability, pricing, and the usual copyright complaints to justify it dont make sense. They're usually all excuses for the person with "I should be able to get this on my terms because, uhh, freedom" syndrome.

Sometimes the complaints are legitimate but still don't excuse piracy. We've created this problem ourselves and the only way to stop it is to vote with our wallets. Piracy does not count as voting with your wallet. To vote with your wallet you have to be willing to live without the thing you desire or go to a competitor until the seller starts giving the consumer what they want. A black market is not a competitor and it undermines the goal of getting media companies to start making it convenient to buy their product at a reasonable price. Piracy just shows them we want what they've got but don't want to pay. The only way to compete with piracy is to shut it down which is impossible and leads us to crazy proposals like the one discussed here. But lets say HBO and Shotime both aired Game of Thrones. If HBO sucks at distribution and pricing consumers go to Shotime instead. HBO sees this and can't shut down Shotime so the solution is to get better at pleasing consumers.

My point is that you can't compete with a black market and this constant arms race to implement and circumvent anti-piracy measures will lead to a stalemate where we all lose. If we quit both pirating media and buying it, that would start leading to changes in a positive direction (for those of us who aren't just pirating to be cheap at least).

*Side note: unfortunately, getting media online has the potential to become VERY convenient but can never be as convenient as piracy as it'll always require a payment step but is that really so awful?

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