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SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

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Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#221

Post by tytso »

jakejake wrote: post #123
onemorepassword wrote: post #49

In events like these I'm glad I'm living under protective labor laws and not in the US. That would have forced all parties involved to talk it out like grown-ups instead of resorting to terminating those involved. Now there is no kind of resolution, but two people are unemployed and two companies are damaged. Nice going.

This is the second post I've read recently about the US having no labor laws. Is that what everybody outside the US thinks? There's tons of laws and certain types of jobs are very difficult to fire people (unionized industries and govt. jobs). And there are laws and lawsuits for wrongful termination. Private companies still have labor laws they have to obey. Except for certain types of issues employees can be fired.…

Unfortunately, the vast majority of jobs in the US, especially the ones that in the I/T industry and in the startup world, have "at will" employement, which means very little protection for the employees. Also, startups typically have very little assets, which means that a lawyer is unlikely to take a wrongful termination lawsuit on a contingency basis. In the US, you get the best justice money can buy.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#222

Post by seivan »

blindhippo wrote: post #203
seivan wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I wasn't making my point across. Lets put it this way, taking a photo of two guys (probably geo-tagged) and uploading on internet because they said something you generally don't like. _That is what happened_ How does she know those two guys aren't on protected identity, or have issues with being online on social media? I don't have Facebook because I don't want to be tagged on anything. She had no fucking right…

I agree with you that her actions were a bit on the obscene side. However, you are failing to see the import here. "because they said something you generally don't like. _This is what happened_" No, this is not what happened. The developer said an offensive joke, as a representative of his employer, at a conference full of his peers. He behaved in a disrespectful and unprofessional manner and deserves all the shame h…

I really don't agree. The jokes (I read them) are not offensive. Even Github sells http://shop.github.com/products/fork-you-shirt-mens-medium

And I really dislike the Python Goons for kicking those guys out.

It would be one thing if they said something about gender or racial stuff that actually targets people.

I can fork both genders, especially if one of them has a big dongle, so forking as a joke, is gender-free.

But this was just fucked up. I am glad she got fired. People like that are jaded and will be difficult to be around. I would not want to be around someone I need to tip toe around.

Dongles für alle!

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#223

Post by WalterSear »

niggler wrote: post #195
WalterSear wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want her to apologize for inappropriately publicly shaming them, and the actions that resulted from that.

" the actions that resulted from that." The actions that resulted from that were the employers' fault. If she claimed they molested her (which is illegal and can result in jail time) when they didn't, then you have a point. But the comment they made was uncontested and the employer decided, for a multitude of reasons including the recent matter, to let the guy go. What if the employer was ready to fire him already, a…

The difference is the one between negligence and manslaughter. If your negligent actions result in something else down the line, you are still, in part, responsible.

There can, and usually is, more than 100% blame to go around.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#224

Post by cdelsolar »

danilocampos wrote: post #159
beachstartup wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does accidental immature behavior work? "let's check out this pitch and then grab a beer" at a startup VC pitch event sensitive woman in front of you hears: "let's check out of this bitch and grab a beer" turns around, pics, tweets, gets you fired on the spot. HOW IS THIS OKAY? public shaming is NOT the right response. IT'S JUST NOT. what a stunning lack of imagination.

So, here's the problem with your little fantasy: These guys were actually making sexual jokes . This wasn't a single mis-heard phrase.

Why can't people make sexual jokes to each other?

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#225

Post by knowtheory »

adamnemecek wrote: post #194
knowtheory wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, i agree whole heartedly. That's on her. What's on us is all of the comments saying things like "you'd be crazy to ever hire her ." "SHE'LL never work in this industry again." Great. Really tolerant. (And don't get me wrong, i'm one of the folks pissed at the way she conducted herself, but i'm way more pissed off at the mob that's whipped up this incident into something it never should have been)

If I said, "If you let your toddler play in a tiger cage, you are crazy." would you ask me "Why do you want toddlers to get mauled by tigers"? Maybe I wouldn't want it to happen, but it would regardless of my desires. I was just stating a fact about what will happen, whether you or I agree with it or not.

Mm. A lot of these comments preclude the possibility that Adria might grow, change, or rehabilitate herself.

And as such, these come off very much as if they're putting nails into her coffin. There are people who do deserve to be run out of their industries, Stephen Glass, or Jonah Lehrer come to mind immediately. That is not a proportionate or reasonable response to what has happened here, but then, nothing about these circumstances have been proportionate or reasonable.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#226

Post by danielweber »

m4re wrote: post #23

The way heads are rolling, I wonder if I'm next? I'm the guy in green in the center of the photo (completely oblivious to this whole situation).

I was wondering what about the other guys in the picture.

If she had posted the pic but with all identity blurred out, I think she would have achieved 99% of what she wanted to accomplish, and everyone would still be employed.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#228

Post by masklinn »

niggler wrote: post #148
masklinn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have two sexist/innapropriate developers Inappropriate yes, sexist no (a "dongle" private joke can hardly be construed as sexist, seriously). > one employer who (apparently, there is STILL no evidence for this fact beyond the anonymous pastebin!) fired one of the first guys on questionable evidence Apparently? A blog post from their CEO not evidence enough: http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ ? Also fire…

Read your article: "we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways." I still suspect this was a firing for many reasons, not just this incident.

> Read your article:

I've read it several times, just in case the text changed between my visits

> I still suspect this was a firing for many reasons, not just this incident.

And yet the post provides no information whatsoever and crucially does not come close to hinting that this was not the reason, you'd think. There may have been other reasons, but the timing is odd, why wait until he gets involved in something at PyCon? And even if it happened to be the straw breaking the camel's back it's not like they had to fire him on the spot.

Unless they wanted to milk some views, after all some say no publicity is bad publicity.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#229

Post by rdtsc »

danilocampos wrote: post #86
blhack wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually know what the guys said? They made a joke about the word "dong" sounding like the word "dongle". If this is what you think a frat house sounds like, you are very mistaken. That this is considered a faux pas is more politically correct than any office I've ever heard of.

> Do you actually know what the guys said? I can assure you I know substantially more on this than you do. People have a right to attend a conference without sexual jokes leaking into their ears while they attend a talk. It's as simple as that. Should the guy have been fired? No. Should he have been talking like that? No.

> People have a right to attend a conference without sexual jokes leaking into their ears while they attend a talk. It's as simple as that.

Hmm wonder if they have a right to attend without a fear of having their lives ruined by a an idiot with a smart phone camera and a twitter account.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#230

Post by anigbrowl »

danilocampos wrote: post #131
blhack wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can assure you I know substantially more on this than you do. Well then do enlighten the class.

If you had the empathy or personal context to understand what happened here, how these situations work, and how disempowering the behavior can feel, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. No amount of my arguing with you on Hacker News will change that.

Danilo, following up an argument from authority with an ad hominem attack is not constructive either.
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