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'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

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Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#221

Post by frumplestlatz »

slg wrote: post #188
tdb7893 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general scam of unrealistic promises then under-delivering is such a well worn trope that while gender surely played a part in it (as it is a big part of social perceptions in general) I hesitate to blame it here. I think for anyone who has been in tech for a while it doesn't take an imagination to picture a man doing pretty much the same thing

"The general scam of unrealistic promises then under-delivering" is how the richest man on the planet amassed his wealth. OP is doing the exact same thing he's accusing other people of doing, focusing too much on identity. Holmes surely used her gender as a tool the same way all these striving psychopaths will use whatever is at their disposal, but if it wasn't her gender, it just would have been something else. And…

Dishonest people use social causes as camouflage, and the more unassailable the cause, the more effective it is.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#222

Post by xyzelement »

kthartic wrote: post #100
xyzelement wrote: post #13

I have a distinctive memory about Theranos from business school - so circa 2013 a few years before it blew up. Some professor was going on and on about Holmes for being a young, female, founder. It stood out at the moment as weird because the praise was separate from success or outcomes or like brilliant science. It was all about the identity: gender and age. I wonder if the reason the scam went so far as it did beca…

At the time women were (and still are) underdogs in STEM, so it's no surprise your professor would want to highlight that. For all the rest of were aware, she really was a successful health-tech founder

You are missing the point. The praise of her was devoid of even a nod to the actual element of achievement.

I know this because this was the first time I heard of Holmes and obviously well before the downfall and the fact that the story jumps out from my memory is because of how weird that phrasing was.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#223

Post by xyzelement »

martythemaniak wrote: post #99
xyzelement wrote: post #13

I have a distinctive memory about Theranos from business school - so circa 2013 a few years before it blew up. Some professor was going on and on about Holmes for being a young, female, founder. It stood out at the moment as weird because the praise was separate from success or outcomes or like brilliant science. It was all about the identity: gender and age. I wonder if the reason the scam went so far as it did beca…

Have you ever wondered the same about other scams? Who else do you think was shaped "correctly"? Also, isn't affinity fraud most types of fraud?

Umm yes? Example: when crypto was at the height of hype, I assumed that most businesses in that space were scams(to different degrees) - and that those who invested in the scam ones without due diligence were taken in by wanting to ride that wave.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#224

Post by alyeska2 »

epistasis wrote: post #210
lelanthran wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She was sold as a successful Stanford dropout Is, uh, "sexism" in the room with us now?

Obviously? Just because a fish doesn't see water doesn't mean it's not there. They're just so used to it that they don't have the concept of "not water." Look at this entire thread: Holmes was widely acknowledged to have a board that got her contracts that she should never have gotten. She got her investment money because of family connections. Yet this entire thread is all about "oh but she was a woman and woman hav…

Your bias and/or obsession are blinding you to the situation here.

There are hundreds of Standord dropouts running startups. And if they do fraud, people call it out, the media reports it as fraud, investors and customers leave, and that's the end.

But Holmes successfully marketed herself with gender as a central part of her story, so that people like you would defend her, promote her and dismiss criticism against the company or product because you're so sure that it's sexism and not legitimate criticism.

The only reason the Theranos fraud got as far as it did was because everyone calling it a fraud got silenced and cancelled as sexists. Now that it's finally over they're saying "See! We told you!" and yet you persist in "No, you're just a sexist".

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#225

Post by noir_lord »

xyzelement wrote: post #180
noir_lord wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk as well among others.

I find this a week comparison. I've driven a Tesla, I've used PayPal. My government has used spaceX to do space things. Whatever you think of Musk there's a significant amount of "actually exists and works" that's on a different planet vs Theranos

> but engineer/tech companies often play the same trope but on "brilliant and smart people but bit naive/rose-tinted views that couldn't unintentionally harm anyone even if they tried"

Was referring more towards that before he went full mask off he was "that guy who does EV's" to anyone not paying close attention.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#226

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

whaleofatw2022 wrote: post #166
philipallstar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Bernie Madoff could run as a republican senator, I'd given him decent odds to win. And yet somehow he - a man - is in jail. A jail built by men, condemned by a justice system designed by men to lock bad men up.

... was in jail. He died in 2021. Curiously enough, unless something changed and nobody updated his Wikipedia page, his family didnt even collect his ashes.

Being dead doesn't necessarily mean you can't be a senator. Ask Mitch McConnel.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#227

Post by xyzelement »

tootie wrote: post #95
xyzelement wrote: post #13

I have a distinctive memory about Theranos from business school - so circa 2013 a few years before it blew up. Some professor was going on and on about Holmes for being a young, female, founder. It stood out at the moment as weird because the praise was separate from success or outcomes or like brilliant science. It was all about the identity: gender and age. I wonder if the reason the scam went so far as it did beca…

I remember the endless glazing of Sam Bankman-Fried being pretty similar. Pretty sure they engineered it that way. Sell the idea of success. Trump did the exact same thing.

I think it's a little different.

To use a micro-example - I've been to various Trump buildings around the world. I've skated at a trump operated rink, I've seen the trump golf courses. So whatever opinion we have about trump and his practices, there's clearly a tangible output, a product that people use and enjoy.

I do agree that trump certainly cultivates an image of success but there is also clearly tangible success there. SBF and Holmes are in a different category in that there was nothing behind it.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#228

Post by bmitc »

Elizabeth Holmes is definitely unhinged, but I feel there's always a little bit of sexism that goes along with it. For example, I believe you could make a very similar documentary around Sam Altman, Elon Musk, or Donald Trump. Altman and Musk just have the ability to find people who have already come up with the ideas instead of inventing the idea themselves. I have no idea how Trump does it.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#229

Post by xyzelement »

epistasis wrote: post #210
lelanthran wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She was sold as a successful Stanford dropout Is, uh, "sexism" in the room with us now?

Obviously? Just because a fish doesn't see water doesn't mean it's not there. They're just so used to it that they don't have the concept of "not water." Look at this entire thread: Holmes was widely acknowledged to have a board that got her contracts that she should never have gotten. She got her investment money because of family connections. Yet this entire thread is all about "oh but she was a woman and woman hav…

// Yet this entire thread is all about "oh but she was a woman and woman have it easy" despite no other women to point at all.

You are confused about what the thread is about which confirms the point being made that you are looking for offense.

This thread is about my memory of a bschool professor being more excited about holmes gender and age than in what she's actually done (which would also be weird even if holmes turned out to be a non fraud)

The broader point is that my professor was representative of a group of people which wanted Holmes to succeed because of who she was. Did they cause some degree of blindness? Probably!

That's not saying "women have it easy" to any degree. That part is in your head so you are literally offended by something you made up.

Re: 'You Can See Everything' Review: Nathan Fielder's Doc About Elizabeth Holmes

#230

Post by joebig »

NathanielK wrote: post #197
joebig wrote: post #84

Elizabeth Holmes Thanksgiving Visit: Family Time in Prison https://www.memesita.com/elizabeth-holmes-thanksgiving-visit... And wtf is even a "prison camp?"

Bit of whiplash between the standard wordpress and the vibecoded "Byoviral" button. Article was fairly unfocused, any particular reason you linked it?

Sorry, I just automatically turn on reader mode everywhere.

Taking the article at face value, I get the sense she got away with it. That's all.

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