Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

geohot.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 280 posts

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#221

Post by BobbyTables2 »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #200
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #3

Yep, that's horrifying. Imagine LLMs not just denying information about, to intentionally choose a hot button example, abortions but also invisibly logging a black mark against the asker for thoughtcrime/precrime because the current ruling party has baked their ideology into law. [EDIT] Imagine subtle injection of biases into responses that support the agenda of the current ruling party and failing to include any cou…

I'm wildly optimistic about the direction this is going to go, but my one dystopia idea that crops up occasionally is a "smart social credit system" that lives kind of under the hood of society. Once everything is more or less modulated by AI, suppose the technology gets good enough to identify a potential dissident in grade school. Then to keep them from going into the mountains with their friends and rifles, you ma…

Also equally effective at suppressing political oppression…

Imagine if having opposing views tarnished social credit, making one unemployable…

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#222

Post by ianm218 »

andy99 wrote: post #129
ianm218 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t track though. Just recently AI became “powerful enough” to warrant export controls from the US and maybe soon China. It’s more he screamed that bacteria is gonna do evolution faster than any before it and turn into a beast that destroys the world, and now that bacteria has turned into a squirrel so far. He’s been very right so far and if that squirrel keeps sizing up you’d want to give him credit.

Just recently AI became “powerful enough” to warrant export controls from the US and maybe soon China. What’s the term I’m looking for here? This is one of the most absurd statements I’ve ever seen but it feels like a pattern I’ve forgotten from books or something. Someone makes a made up claim, second party acts on made up claim, third party takes second party’s actions a proof of claim. Reminds me of the “they’re e…

Do you mind taking your comment a bit further to a conclusion so I can better understand your perspective?

Like are you saying that AI is still kinda not a powerful tool and unlikely to become geopolitically relevant etc? I don’t know how to relate this to culture war media frenzies which is rather stay out of.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#223

Post by TN1ck »

samtheprogram wrote: post #213
ericpauley wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Bike tires are pretty much the easiest tires to change. You don’t even really need irons and it involves a few very basic steps.

That's the point, he chose something very easy to do to illustrate how out of touch he thinks they are. It's obviously not the case.

But even that can be difficult at times. My roommate had once a racing bike with a tire so tight, we struggled immensely getting it on.

And even without such a difficult tire, imo most people would struggle if you’d ask them to change a tire of a bike, especially the back wheel.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#224

Post by saturn8601 »

rmbyrro wrote: post #165
ericpauley wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Bike tires are pretty much the easiest tires to change. You don’t even really need irons and it involves a few very basic steps.

And our robots still look far from capable of changing bike tires...

Might be premature to say that...Elon is essentially betting all of Tesla on the fact that a robot can change a bike tire soon, if he is wrong he might have to come up with some new BS to keep surviving, but maybe he is partially right and a robot ends up being able to change some bike tires sometimes.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#225

Post by saturn8601 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #70
piker wrote: post #26

What a provocative and brilliant way to prove misalignment. It will fall on deaf ears for most but it’s a great litmus test for all: “in your opinion should your AI be permitted to tell you how to cover up a murder?”

The author's example is too extreme, which is turning people off. Better examples would have been LLMs subtly giving inadequate responses on how to increase token efficiency or how to organize labor unions or info about protesting against datacenter construction because they're against the business interests of the LLM providers. Crimes against their business model, so to speak. Wasn't there some HN submission recent…

This is a fundamental problem in politics in my opinion. Everybody has different values and points of view so they may see the same thing completely differently. Its what makes humans great but also frustrating. geohots example will work for some, others will be convinced of the opposite opinion, and others will just let is pass them by and not understand the implications. The same could be applied to your examples to a different degree.

Politicians try to use different examples for the audience they are speaking to.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#226

Post by saturn8601 »

iandanforth wrote: post #43

Fight extremism with extremism I guess? Maybe we don't have to be either "world govt" or "help me get away with murder". It's ok to say things will be messy and complicated and that limited regulation is probably good even if we agree totalitarian control is bad.

Not sure if you are talking about extremist actions or just rhetoric but if so, the numbers aren't there. Violence isn't the answer as the government has gotten better at stomping down any resistance with each passing generation. Some say Kent State killed the resistance mentality among boomers. Their kids started with that watered down mentality and a more emboldened government went further to erode it further. I don't really know about this for sure but it seems this is the case. I hope to see how it all plays out in the coming decades though.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#227

Post by saturn8601 »

kklisura wrote: post #121

Lol at George thinking _they_ are gonna let you run your own model. They don't even let me run my own adblocker!

They still do, you just choose not to explore your options. Therefore you still have that freedom. Go to Firefox and get your adblocker back.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#228

Post by throawayonthe »

Aurornis wrote: post #160
mlinsey wrote: post #51

I have some sympathy to geohot's view when it comes to pure informational chatbots. It's a first amendment issue, I'm allowed to write and read books that are useful to getting away with crimes, etc. This obviously doesn't work at all when the agents start doing real things in the real world, though. "Hey AI, I don't like my neighbor, find an exploit in the firmware for his car and make the cruise control malfunction…

> The AI can and should refuse it. This leads to LLMs refusing to do security work for anyone, because it can’t tell if it’s being done for good or evil purposes. Which is precisely what we’re going through right now with frontier models and it’s terrible. These proposals always assume some perfect mechanism for identifying the thought crime with triggering on the normal requests. The people who want to commit crimes…

> Which is precisely what we’re going through right now with frontier models and it’s terrible.

terrible is a bit far, but pretty hilarious for sure

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#229

Post by piloto_ciego »

Jordan-117 wrote: post #215
piloto_ciego wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wildly optimistic about the direction this is going to go, but my one dystopia idea that crops up occasionally is a "smart social credit system" that lives kind of under the hood of society. Once everything is more or less modulated by AI, suppose the technology gets good enough to identify a potential dissident in grade school. Then to keep them from going into the mountains with their friends and rifles, you ma…

Historically speaking, isn't the core of most revolutions the product of "elite overproduction" -- educated young people expecting to secure a high status position who are instead shunted into lower prospects? Seems like trapping ideological agitators in near-precarity with no way out would be feeding into that pressure.

yeah, from everything I've read this appears to be the case? But like, if you had some hyper intelligent robot that was getting John Q Revolution a raise and a corner office whenever he started to get dissatisfied maybe you could balance it out?

Personally, I think it's likely that we end up with some post-material scarcity sort of thing and the need to fly off the handle and rebel declines a bit? Hard to justify overturning the apple cart when everything seems pretty great for most people? But yeah, I could imagine a smart enough set of tools figuring out how to walk the knife's edge beteen elite over production and a nation of serfs.

Re: AI 2040 and the cult of intelligence

#230

Post by piloto_ciego »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #221
piloto_ciego wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wildly optimistic about the direction this is going to go, but my one dystopia idea that crops up occasionally is a "smart social credit system" that lives kind of under the hood of society. Once everything is more or less modulated by AI, suppose the technology gets good enough to identify a potential dissident in grade school. Then to keep them from going into the mountains with their friends and rifles, you ma…

Also equally effective at suppressing political oppression… Imagine if having opposing views tarnished social credit, making one unemployable…

well, so, you wouldn't want to do that because a lot of people have opposing views, and if they're just shut out of the economy, you couldn't use their labor. A truly efficient and nefarious robot overlord would be fine with everyone not liking it, but use it's superior predicting powers to just eliminate the people who are likely to cause a problem and dissuade them specifically.

Like, everyone else applying to Mego-Corp gets their resume reviewed, but John Q Revolution's resume doesn't attach to the application or whatever.

Post reply on HN