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IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

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Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#221

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

I've been trying to kick the Apple habit since I got my first tiBook, which was the _revelation_ for me at the time, that Apple of all people were producing the Unix laptop, and also making the physicality of the thing badass. So, in my effort to stay true to my Unix'ish roots, I've gotten a Motorola Lapdock real cheap, its at least as comfy as a macbook Air, and I'm plugging in things like .. raspberryPi, MK802/808…

Which Lapdock? The 500?

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#222
post #82
post #14

To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen. Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them... (I a…

The problem is that we don't have a choice. There's only one premium option to go for. And it's apple. It's surprising how none of the others have at least created a luxury brand, similar to Toyota/Lexus or Volkswagen/Audi.

Can someone move this comment up to its rightful parent "But then how will people know I have Taste?"

I like the fact that we can identify those types of people via a single brand. Let's not change that.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All I'm saying is that I don't see any value in reading it, particularly not in the context of HN. OT: Do not read the article. Furthermore, do not comment on the article, nor should yo up vote it. If you feel the article violates some aspect of HN, flag it. However, if your reason for commenting is to just say: "I don't see any value in reading it, particularly not in the context of HN." then you are not contribut…

>> This is not an attack. Merely an observation. You value the quality of HN. Be the quality. Don't be the problem. I agree with most of what you wrote, except this part. Maybe I'm being naive but I believe discussion about stuff you don't like about a community-driven platform like HN might actually improve it. To me, the fact that articles like this hit HN more and more often, is separate from the discussion you ca…

> Maybe I'm being naive but I believe discussion about stuff you don't like about a community-driven platform like HN might actually improve it.

In context. But when out of context, it won't. If anything, one could argue that if your comment does provide any value toward improving HN, then the article served a greater purpose, and as a result, was of value.

Regardless, actions speak louder than words.

> All I'm saying is that in the time I've been visiting HN, the information value of the articles upvoted on HN is going down.

That's the natural state of things. I've seen people say this for years now. It's a reoccurring theme. I do not know how long you've been visiting HN, but going just by your profile, I can assure you, 444 days ago, people were discussing how HN had gone down hill.

I believe a portion of that complaint is that when you first get here, it's new, and you haven't seen the articles being presented. After a while, you start to read the same thing over and over again. It becomes dull. And things start to stand out that you might not have noticed your first day.

> You are twisting my words.

No. It's just a misunderstanding. No twisting was intended.

> You say 'people enjoy different things' as if that justifies anything that gets posted on HN.

Actually, it does. HN is based on voting, and the members of HN enjoy reading many types of articles here. If something gets voted up, it's because a segment of the members want to read these types of things on HN. That you are uninterested in this specific topic does not mean it's outside of HN's accepted role.

> Lots of people enjoy reading about ponies, but you don't see a lot of articles about ponies on HN, and I don't think many people think that's a bad thing.

Don't be silly, the context is HN, making that point moot. The argument isn't about general wants and desires, but what people want to read here on HN.

Anyways, my point is, and was, you can either be a part of the problem, or part of the solution. If you want to see different articles, submit them! Ignore the ones that you aren't interested in. Flag articles that don't belong. You can either be a positive force, or a negative one.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#224

I feel exactly the same way. And just like the author. I don't quite fully understand why. By the way, I don't think the author is really criticizing Apple much. He just recognizes that Apple's vision is no longer in line with his own.

I wonder what was the vision he thought he shared with Apple ? If you reverse all his points then it seems like in his mind Apple provided ultra customisable hardware and software with great options for the enterprise. I don't remember that Apple.

There is that vision of the Unix with a nice UI.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#225
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously the premise; that people who are proficient in computers (whatever that may mean) are abnormal. Computer/tech savvy is obviously a continuum. Lumping people into binary categories doesn't help the conversation much.

They are abnormal in the sense that they are a minority. It's not a value judgement. Do you accept that those with enough proficiency to be creating commercial software have different modes of computer usage to the majority that don't?

Words have meaning. Being in a minority doesn't mean abnormal. You may not intend it to be a value judgement, but it clearly is when you're referring to a group of people. Perhaps in a clinical setting normal/abnormal doesn't have any perjorative qualities, but in normal day to day use it does.

Your question is also a non sequiter. Computer usage patterns aren't always correlated to either proficiency in programming or computer experience. For example, I know many commercial programmers who have the most simplistic understanding of their OS, be it Linux, OSX or Windows. They don't understand the difference between CISC/RISC, nor do they exhibit a greater facility with various application than non-programmers. As I've said before, computer knowledge is a continuum, and trying to pigeonhole users into neat categories is foolish. There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't. Neither are better than the other, and calling some normal with the subtext that they're inferior to computer geeks is elitist.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#226
post #141

I've been a Mac user for nearly a decade, first machine I bought was a G4 12" iBook. My Uni final year project was a Cocoa app when saying "Hey I'm making a Mac App!" got you strange looks. I've also developed on Linux for work for about 5/6 years. Sometimes, even cross-platform OS X/Linux development. Has the situation changed and 'nerds' are no longer Apple's target market? Kind of. A bit. If you cared about upgrad…

> If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed. Not true; at some point in time versions of OS X kind of stop working (no new version of Firefox or Chrome for you if you're running anything prior to 10.5 for example).

Prior to 10.6, actually.

I just upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6.8 for that very reason.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a contingent of UNIX users who use Mac OS X pragmatically. I have never had the illusion that Apple wasn't a consumer device company at heart. But Macs have been great UNIX workstations for the last decade or so. Once they make more serious attempts to turn their laptop line into 'iOS computers', I'll switch back to Linux or BSD. But for now, it is good hardware with a good UNIX operating system.

I just bought a MacBook Air last week, after a 2 year break without a Mac laptop. I had been using Lion and Mountain Lion on a Mac Mini, but the last week or so have been a revelation for me. Crazy battery life (about 9 hours of normal programming), full screen apps with swiping to switch between them, fast fast fast at everyday operations thanks to the SSD, the whole thing is at the same time a major turn towards iD…

To address your points:

- Lion is very fast with a SSD, but definitely slower than 10.6 with a regular hard disk. Hence the difference in perception between various people.

- The whole-screen app stuff is a good idea, but the implementation sucks on multiple monitors, which many geeks use (the problem is: when you go full screen on one monitor, the other no longer shows anything by gray linen)

- Many features were removed for what seems to be no good reason, e.g. RSS feeds.

- Some iPad-like behaviors make little sense on a desktop, e.g. automatically closing Safari if idle for a while. It takes several seconds to open a web link just because it has to relaunch the application.

- Annoying for my company, Taodyne (3D presentations): stereoscopy used to be perfectly stable on 10.6, unstable since 10.7, to the point of causing kernel panics or system freezes regularly.

- Memory management has been a weak point since Rhapsody. In Rhapsody, you could crash the system simply by zooming in Preview. Today, you can still halt your top-of-the-line system to a crawl simply by running a process that eats all available memory. I'd much rather have an easy quota system where I can say "unless otherwise specified, no app can take more than 1/4th of available RAM". Or a paging system that makes smarter decisions and keeps the "interactive" stuff resident enough that I can still kill the offending process.

- Tons of annoying little bugs at the lowest levels, and you really wonder what was broken there that they needed to fix. Like the mouse cursor that sometimes disappears. Or the keyboard that sometimes forgets half the keys you type. Or Safari that stops refreshing part of the screen. Or moving a window across monitors that now causes the window and background icons to blink. And so on. Lion does not feel as polished as Snow Leopard.

Overall, I still like Apple products, but I definitely see them losing their edge on the software quality front. I think that Maps on iOS is just the most glaring example, but it's not the only one.

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#228
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a MacBook Air last week, after a 2 year break without a Mac laptop. I had been using Lion and Mountain Lion on a Mac Mini, but the last week or so have been a revelation for me. Crazy battery life (about 9 hours of normal programming), full screen apps with swiping to switch between them, fast fast fast at everyday operations thanks to the SSD, the whole thing is at the same time a major turn towards iD…

To address your points: - Lion is very fast with a SSD, but definitely slower than 10.6 with a regular hard disk. Hence the difference in perception between various people. - The whole-screen app stuff is a good idea, but the implementation sucks on multiple monitors, which many geeks use (the problem is: when you go full screen on one monitor, the other no longer shows anything by gray linen) - Many features were re…

- Lion is very fast with a SSD, but definitely slower than 10.6 with a regular hard disk. Hence the difference in perception between various people.

I'd like to see this backed up by numbers. Sure, Lion and Mountain Lion are quite slow on spinning platters, but OS X feels almost an order of magnitude faster since I had an SSD. Much faster than Snow Leopard with a hard disk. The numbers are also on my side, an SSD completely blows away hard disks both in access times and read/write speed.

but the implementation sucks on multiple monitors

Indeed. Big time. It works ok on the road, but when I have an external screen connected I never use full screen support. It would be easy to make things better: allow users to put another full-screen application (or desktop) on the secondary screen.

Tons of annoying little bugs at the lowest levels, and you really wonder what was broken there that they needed to fix. Like the mouse cursor that sometimes disappears.

I really disliked Lion for all its bugs. But things have been steadily improving since Mountain Lion, to the point where even iMessage works most of the time in 10.8.2 ;).

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#229
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To address your points: - Lion is very fast with a SSD, but definitely slower than 10.6 with a regular hard disk. Hence the difference in perception between various people. - The whole-screen app stuff is a good idea, but the implementation sucks on multiple monitors, which many geeks use (the problem is: when you go full screen on one monitor, the other no longer shows anything by gray linen) - Many features were re…

- Lion is very fast with a SSD, but definitely slower than 10.6 with a regular hard disk. Hence the difference in perception between various people. I'd like to see this backed up by numbers. Sure, Lion and Mountain Lion are quite slow on spinning platters, but OS X feels almost an order of magnitude faster since I had an SSD. Much faster than Snow Leopard with a hard disk. The numbers are also on my side, an SSD com…

I think c3d is right in that Lion and Mountain Lion are slower than Snow Leopard if you don't have an SSD. It seems to me that recently Apple have been designing OSX with SSD-equipped computers as the target. They assume that you will have fast read times, and use algorithms to optimise that. For example, they 'deactivate' applications that aren't being used, because they know they can restart them from SSD very quickly, which in turn frees up physical RAM, which speeds the computer up elsewhere. The problem is that if you don't have an SSD, this decision is catastrophic for performance. As always, Apple are skating to where the puck is going to be, not where it is...

Re: IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

#230
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a proprietary networking system when no-one else has any networking is hardly a crime. Sticking with it a little too long? Not a crime. Likewise graphics APIs. (Which platform has non-proprietary 2D APIs?) QuickDraw 3D's problem wasn't that it was proprietary, it was that it sucked. Likewise QuickTime video. You do realize (a) it was first, and (b) Apple licensed the architecture to the MPEG folk (MP4's contai…

Quicktime was a crime. Don't try to rationalize that one.

Don't need to rationalize it. I have no idea what you're talking about. Speaking as someone who worked in multimedia in the 90s it was the only game in town for five years, and then the least worst option until mpeg4. There was a period when wrapping flash around a video stream got you better browser support, but that's pretty much it.

I can understand hating iTunes and Safari for windows (both of which were, at some point, foisted on people installing QuickTime) but the basic QuickTime libraries, container format, etc. were top notch and remain the best option for working with time-based media.

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