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OpenPrinter

opentools.studio

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Re: OpenPrinter

#221

Post by jeroenhd »

swiftcoder wrote: post #217

I don't get why this isn't an ink tank printer. Yes, those HP cartridges are technically refillable, but the printheads tend to clog up after a few refills, and then you are stuck paying retail for another cartridge. It would be a lot more aspirational to figure out how to build a tank-based printer (although maybe its not possible to compete with the incumbents on price in this space)

Printheads are nanotechnology with extreme precision requirements. The rest of the printer is a few well-timed stepper motors, simple in comparison. HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design.

In theory you could probably modify one of these by grabbing an HP cartridge and slapping an ink tank on top with the right sponge for transferring the ink over. Selling parts from HP printer cartridges might creep a little too close to HP's patent lawyers, though, and having users open cartridges to extract the print heads themselves sounds like a messy solution that would reduce the appeal.

I'm sure that given time, someone will 3D print an ink tank holder that will let you use cheap ink supplies through the expensive HP cartridges.

Re: OpenPrinter

#222

Post by bryanrasmussen »

HelloUsername wrote: post #2

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

interesting that on the front page at this time is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48757900 "The Age of Personalized Hardware Is Coming", which, it seems that it may be, but not for inkjet printers?

Re: OpenPrinter

#223

Post by jeroenhd »

_giorgio_ wrote: post #159

HP will simply prevent them from buying their head + cartridge bundle. By legal or by controlling more strictly bulk purchases of replacement parts.

I don't think they need to ship the cartridges themselves. Customers can just go to any store selling printer ink and get the cartridges. It's a bit steep to also need to buy the money-making product HP wants to earn on, but you can just refill them with cheap ink when they're empty so it's not as big an issue in the long term.

HP could stop selling ink cartridges to stores, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot as well.

Re: OpenPrinter

#224

Post by whyoh »

jeroenhd wrote: post #221
swiftcoder wrote: post #217

I don't get why this isn't an ink tank printer. Yes, those HP cartridges are technically refillable, but the printheads tend to clog up after a few refills, and then you are stuck paying retail for another cartridge. It would be a lot more aspirational to figure out how to build a tank-based printer (although maybe its not possible to compete with the incumbents on price in this space)

Printheads are nanotechnology with extreme precision requirements. The rest of the printer is a few well-timed stepper motors, simple in comparison. HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design. In theory you could probably modify one of these by grabbing an HP cartridge and slapping an ink tank on top with the right sponge for transferring the ink over. Selling parts…

>HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design.

Yes, but it also means it won't be cheaper or more reliable than a regular printer. The print head is what fails most often and you'll still have to buy a new one.

Re: OpenPrinter

#225

Post by whyoh »

15155 wrote: post #211
brookst wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s negligible revenue and carries some risk. Say the printer works well, and these enthusiasts drive a couple of thousand more cartridge sales. And that encourages someone to develop an alternative cartridge, which is mechanically and electrically compatible with HP’s. It just seems easier to fire off a cease and desist than to take a risk of other people messing around with your ecosystem.

> And that encourages someone to develop an alternative cartridge, which is mechanically and electrically compatible with HP This already happens for basically every commercially-available ink cartridge.

No, those are just repackaged OEM cartridges. And usually they've already been used, which is why they're cheaper.

Re: OpenPrinter

#227

Post by rbanffy »

szszrk wrote: post #199
userbinator wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's because the protocol for driving those cartridges is known and others have used them: https://spritesmods.com/?art=magicbrush https://spritesmods.com/?art=inker

Make sense. But at the same time sounds like another way to support the biggest predator in that space, no?

Remanufactured cartridges for these printers are available. They profit from the first use of the cartridge, but make nothing out of the refilled ones (I've been using them for some time now).

Re: OpenPrinter

#228

Post by f1shy »

HelloUsername wrote: post #2

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

Well, the same thinking was going on when Mr. Daniel Gelbart [0] started Creo. In all the videos I've seen from Gelbart, he always repeats that many things are being done wrong, he has some answers, but people keep copying bad design.

Saying "no way you will succeed, is way too difficult! look how hard is it for HP" is absolute non-sense.

Also, if the whole printing head is from HP, and they sell it for the price they do, I do not think is the most advanced science the mankind achieved. I would have such doubt maybe if somebody wants to compete with ASML. But Inkjet? really? such an old technology with all patents expired?

[0] https://www.weizmann.ac.il/WeizmannCompass/sections/features...

Re: OpenPrinter

#229

Post by whazor »

tjohns wrote: post #14
HelloUsername wrote: post #2

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

On the technology side, I'm somewhat hopeful because it looks like they're using off-the-shelf HP ink cartridges for this. HP cartridges embed the printhead into the cartridge itself, and that printhead is arguably the most complicated part of the entire device. Outsource the printhead, and you're just designing a plotter with a PCL interface. I agree that the bigger challenge is going to be patents. It also wouldn't…

In the case of DRM it might be easier to use third party cartridges.

Re: OpenPrinter

#230

Post by f1shy »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #115
SwellJoe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in, unlike inkjets. The need for an open laser printer is less dire than for an open inkjet.

"There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots Every manufacturer volunteered to rob their own customers of anonymity. Even at the OS and application level (Adobe) people are being tagged with robust watermarks. In general, still no one cares. =3

It only works if yellow cartridge is installed. And is anonymous, because it only identifies the serial nr., make and model of the printer.
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