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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#221

Post by vkou »

mattmatheus wrote: post #185
anthonypasq wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

NIMBYism has been popular for a long time. People really do want datacenters (or at least, the things that having datacenters enable).. they just want them somewhere else.

I'm not sure anyone but investors chasing yield feel a very strong need to see the planet covered in AI data centers, especially when the benefits seem to be rolling up, not down.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#222

Post by miiiiiike »

micro2588 wrote: post #186
miiiiiike wrote: post #154

It’s reaching the point of absurdity in my area. People are bringing “All data centers are flammable” signs to city meetings. A plot of land that’s already zoned for the heaviest of industrial activities, is across the street from a dump, 3 miles from an airport, 16 miles from a nuclear generating station, and in a region with good climate, and no water crunch is a pretty good place for a data center. Facts don’t mat…

But in PJM they are almost entirely being powered by natural gas and coal? Even if you contract out power from a nuclear plant some other plant on the grid is now enjoying a higher capacity factor, at the margin natural gas. The data center in question in Utah was marketed as a 9GW full build out natural gas facility more than twice the electrical generation of the entire state. Coal electrical production in the US i…

I don’t defend every data center everywhere. I’m talking about the proposed data center about 11 miles from my door.

In my area we have a nuclear generating station 16 miles from that site. It sells 80-85% of all power generate wholesale to other markets. We have the power infrastructure here.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#223

Post by _doctor_love »

esikich wrote: post #196
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I don't understand why people think they should be able to vote on things like this. Especially when they lack the necessary credentials to have an informed opinion on it.

I mean, why do we let people without property vote in the first place? It's really only people with a vested interest who have something at stake.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#224

Post by miiiiiike »

yardie wrote: post #6

A few months ago the founders of the top AI companies walked into Capitol Hill. Tried to explain to a room full of elected representatives exactly how their technology was going to put almost half the working population into under/unemployment and they should consider UBI [0]. Then they went back to the airport, got on their corporate jets, and went home secure in the knowledge that they really showed them. That they…

I have zero faith in the current generation of gen AI. I think the claims are overblown and the odds of massive unemployment is near zero.

Even if the AI bubble pops, the world isn’t going to need fewer data centers. I don’t care if a data center developer/speculator loses their shirt. The data center will stand long after they fold and someone will operate it.

Build it here. Create the construction jobs. Collect the property taxes.

Eat while there’s food.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#225

Post by catapart »

miiiiiike wrote: post #195
catapart wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s all you got out of my comment? What do you propose building next to the dump? South of the airport? Zoned for heavy industrial use. A playground?

All I got out of any of your comments is 'my psuedo-libertarian disposition has rotted my brain past the ability to understand why the problems with megastructure ghost towns are obvious to and unliked by normal people'

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#226

Post by singleshot_ »

anthonypasq wrote: post #167
thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property

Yes, I believe that’s called “society” and while we are all very disappointed about your personal liberties I’m afraid some compromises had to be made to allow people other than you to have property rights too.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#227

Post by ozim »

thewillowcat wrote: post #93

I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry.

I was living in a touristic area.

Guess what was happening, local politicians were treating long term residents as trash in the face of big hotels/apartments who had loads of money.

Fun part was that those apartments/hotels wouldn’t hire locals but rather people who would drive like 20-30 km away.

Bad deal all way round for locals but of course local government people would pocket their share one way or the other if not from outright bribery.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#229

Post by xp84 »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #108
pesus wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are trying to take on the hyperscalers why not push for UBI vs trying to stop the buildout? Is the former really that much more difficult than the latter? I'm really not trying to be rude, but have you followed US politics or history at all? Is this a serious question? Yes, it is incomprehensibly harder to fundamentally change the fabric and structure of society, especially in a way that involves giving "fre…

I'm really not trying to be rude, but have you followed US politics or history at all? Is this a serious question? Trying to control something by merely protecting your own backyard never works. America has reinvented its own social contract many times, it's why we are still here 250 years later. What side would you have been on in the lead up to the civil war? The nothing ever happens side? Or civil rights? Or the N…

Okay, Jeb Bartlett, that's a nice speech, but you're suggesting that real people need to all get on board a platform which doesn't even have enough appeal to get a plurality of everyday voters supporting it[1], and should maybe even be prepared to fight a literal civil war(?) in the hopes that minority will prevail.

> American politics is frequently defined by its aspirational nature.

That part I agree with, though I would say maybe 'fantasy-based' may be better descriptor than 'aspirational' at present. Democrats for example think making a few billionaire sell their yachts would pay for universal healthcare forever (when current Medicare just for old people alone costs 1,118,000,000,000 a year), and Republicans think we can ban abortion and then no one will have anymore abortions.

[1] 45% support for a measly $1000 UBI in 2020 - a time that arguably was the best shot at people considering it! https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/19/more-amer...

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#230

Post by ghaff »

starik36 wrote: post #166
adamsb6 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a voter who prefers we establish rules that be followed rather than encumber every project with a lengthy community dialogue.

That's it right there. Rules, not deals.

The two are often difficult to dissociate. My town had a fairly fractious town meeting around a rezoning proposal that was mostly for a fairly specific commercial purpose--that passed through a basically procedural mechanism in a second meeting.
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