Live data from Hacker News

The room the economy can't see

wilsoniumite.com

221–230 of 296 posts

Re: The room the economy can't see

#221
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow. Your first sentence says you do not care about trash incinerators, presumably next to your house. Your second sentence says you care about the smell. Trash incinerators are very smelly. You are contradicting yourself. I don’t get it.

But if someone invented a new type that didn't smell, it should be allowed. Regulate consequences, not causes. The power substation down the road is disguised as a brick house, because the rule was ultimately about maintaining the look of the area and not about forbidding power substations.

> Regulate consequences, not causes.

a noble sentiment but most often these cannot be separated.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the market because it lets me make more choices of my own. Are you making your own choices? Do you sincerely believe that when one of the largest pillars of the American economy right now is staffed from top to bottom with PhD holders who use everything they know about psychology to make you think certain ways? To want shit you don't need? To make you play games you don't like? To make you consume art that m…

You say that as if there is any alternative. Every other system as well has people who are good at psychology spreading propaganda.

they said the same thing about the divine right of kings

how could there be an alternative? surely without god or a king everything would fall apart!

Re: The room the economy can't see

#224

As a parent, I've always wished that something like that would exist in the united states. I live in a nice town in the northeast but kids hang out at a local dunkin donuts or gas station or cvs. We have some of the highest property tax rates in the country and families move here specifically for the school system so there are a lot of young kids and there are a few playgrounds for younger kids but for 10-18 year old…

Do you have a garage? Is it fully occupied by a car?

they used to create bands in those

Re: The room the economy can't see

#225

Great article. I agree money and time are significant issues here. I’d just add something else I’ve noticed with social organizations, that people used to run them more often, and one form of compensation they got was status in the community for doing something good for everyone, and that status feels like it has diminished since I was a kid. As America has changed demographically, some cultural traditions like volun…

see also: "Bowling Alone"

Re: The room the economy can't see

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who gets on the ballot is determined by voting. That’s not even remotely true political parties determine privately who they will fund to put on the ballot underneath their particular party The public is not invited to vote in those outside of certain primaries and even then the people who are proposed for the primaries are chosen from the party members Ballot access for third-party or non-affiliated typically requi…

The party itself is made up of the people. It isn't hard to join and get influence. Local elections in particular are easy, they are looking for help. Local elections make for people they look for to run in higher elections

I’ve organized with the DSA the last few years, and I caucused for Ron Paul in 2008.

I promise you you will have zero success getting Claudia De-La Cruz (who I voted for and was on the ballot in VA) put on the DNC or RNC ballot.

So no, you can’t just get on a ballot as a candidate by showing up. You need to be a party loyalist and there are no independent parties that voters show up for.

Hell even “down ballot” have to stick to the party line.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#227
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That objection applies to the other options as well. Believe in... I like the market because it lets me make more choices of my own. I don't like zoning codes because too often they are placing restrictions that restrict freedom for some value that isn't objective.

> I like the market because it lets me make more choices of my own. Are you making your own choices? Do you sincerely believe that when one of the largest pillars of the American economy right now is staffed from top to bottom with PhD holders who use everything they know about psychology to make you think certain ways? To want shit you don't need? To make you play games you don't like? To make you consume art that m…

Not op, but my answer would be yes.

The very need for psychiatrists is, in a sense, an example for that. This is a case of companies trying to do their best to convince you to engage with them, because, otherwise, you likely wouldn't. Also, you never get stuff you don't "need". Games you don't want to play? Never happens, even in addictive games. Consume art that makes you feel nothing? Feel nothing how? Worst case scenario, you thought it would make you feel something, but it didn't. In all of these cases, the worst that happened is that you were made to wrongly belive that they would sate you, but your prediction was wrong, so you improve it for next time. Remember, even hypnosis can't overrule individual will, only brainwashing (which isn't a thing yet).

Take the opposite approach, central planning. In central planning, you are given little to no choices. You will be assigned the resources and roles you need according to the central planner. Even if the planner is democratic, your influence is reduced to a single vote, which is guaranteed to be erased by the law of large numbers. And that's ignoring external factor to you that are in control of the central planner: the psychlogists you mentioned still exist, but now they work for the planner instead.

We can argue that people are currently led into making poor choices in the market, but to conclude that this means no choice is being made is wrong. In a market, we can improve people's choices. In centralized systems, "people's choices" aren't a thing.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that as if there is any alternative. Every other system as well has people who are good at psychology spreading propaganda.

they said the same thing about the divine right of kings how could there be an alternative? surely without god or a king everything would fall apart!

Because the alternative to a market (a system where people make choices with the stuff they own) is a system where people are dictated to use stuff they don't own.

The divine right of kings touched on a lot of things, like governance, ownership, origin of law, etc. Decentralization/centralization focuses on ownership before anything else.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#229
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. There's an even simpler way to formulate it: different types of goods require different mixes of market vs planning. For example, video games can be an almost completely free market. Food too (as long as it's checked for public health concerns). But things like water supply or power supply seem to have their own gravity, which again and again leads to more centralized solutions: see the Wikipedia pages for "nat…

>Food too (as long as it's checked for public health concerns). Wha? Food production is a very regulated market for national security reasons in almost every nation. Otherwise one entity with a bunch of money can starve a smaller nation very easily and then take it over. Now on the higher end of food sales, what one can produce is generally less regulated.

Good point, didn't think of it. And yeah, I don't know in general which goods should be more vs less free-market.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#230
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have changed my peanut butter choice - when science started realizing trans fat was a problem I switched before the law changed to reflect science. I have also tried various of the 30 different options in other situations and found the one I personally like best. The value isn't just that I can make a choice, it is also that other people really do make different choices. You are forgetting about the time factor. I…

It’s funny you defend your independence by giving explanations of how you changed your peanut butter buying habits. The point was we don’t care what kind of peanut butter you buy; it’s not a meaningful kind of choice to have.

First, whether something is meaningful or not, depends on the subject.

Independence here isn't about whether your mind exists in a parallel world - devoid of external inputs - it's whether your input is required for an action to happen or not. They didn't simply comply with a choice from above, they experimented and came with an option that works for them. It doesn't matter whether that's a common choice or not, but who held the final authority in it.

In centralized systems, your input is, in theory, basically irrelevant/in practice, completely irrelevant unless you happen to the central authority.

Post reply on HN