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German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

the-decoder.com

221–230 of 587 posts

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a completely reasonable position that companies making self-driving cars and question/answer systems are legally liable for any errors. But if you hold that position, you also have to be fine with companies not offering products and services in your country. AI systems will eventually be good enough (in 10-20 years) for companies to be able to deploy such systems with sufficient accuracy to afford the la…

> AI systems will eventually be good enough (in 10-20 years) for companies to be able to deploy such systems with sufficient accuracy to afford the lawsuits. This doesn’t sound convincing. What AI and what company? LLMs don’t seem like they will ever be reliable like that. Self driving like waymo might be?

> LLMs don’t seem like they will ever be reliable like that.

True. But you never know if / when there will be a new big breakthrough in AI, which will probably be based on a new architecture / paradigm, i.e. it won't be LLM-based

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#222
post #18

Good. The true mark of AGI is when a company accepts liability and doesn’t bury “for entertainment purposes only” deep in their TOS. Same as it works with employees. Same for self-driving. Your car is not self-driving until it accepts liability and you count as just a passenger. But watch as Germany soon loses AI Google results.

at the scale that google is at, it doesn't make an ounce of sense to hold a company liable for a potential mistruth. what if there's a 1/1000 chance of some error, then the company could be sued millions of times per day. down vote all you want, but I firmly believe this is an example where the user needs to use some judgement on the information they receive and have some critical thinking skills. google would be rig…

Hang on, so you are arguing that responsibility for your product is just a phase you grow out of as a company?

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#223
post #163

Wow, you guys really think this is good? Because of the same rules, German restaurants also get to pick and choose which reviews stay up. They can literally take down any specific reviews they like. A restaurant that mostly gets 1 star reviews will still show up with 5 stars on Google maps, as they will simply delete the reviews with less than 5 stars as defamatory. Here's a couple of examples: https://www.reddit.com…

But it also shows the number of removed reviews (in a range like 0-50, 50-100 and so forth). If you encounter a restaurant with 5 starts but a lot of removed reviews you know whats up.

That's a fairly new workaround that took Google years to come up with.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#224
post #208
post #163

Wow, you guys really think this is good? Because of the same rules, German restaurants also get to pick and choose which reviews stay up. They can literally take down any specific reviews they like. A restaurant that mostly gets 1 star reviews will still show up with 5 stars on Google maps, as they will simply delete the reviews with less than 5 stars as defamatory. Here's a couple of examples: https://www.reddit.com…

And the solution to this is to go through the German political system. The courts can't just decide to not follow the law just because it's a bit silly, and for as long as the laws are the way they are, this unfortunate loophole for removing negative reviews will continue to exist. But clearly the law can have both positive and negative consequences.

> But clearly the law can have both positive and negative consequences.

Broad defamation laws always have overwhelmingly negative consequences.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#225
post #201
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all disputes need to be adjudicated. It's undoubtedly a fact that the German concept of "defamation" primarily relates to situations that should never be adjudicated by any third party. Genuinely, by far the most common situation where claims of defamation arise in Germany is any less than 5 star review left to a business on google maps.

The good thing is that google in Germany now shows how many reviews were removed due to deflamation. That should be enough for people to make their judgement when checking how many stars a place has

That's just the tip of the iceberg though. Google is the only party who meaningfully communicates this, and it took them years and years to introduce any meaningful transparency.

It's not like this exclusively affects restaurant reviews, every corner of German society is subject to this same evil censorship mechanism.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#226
post #18

Good. The true mark of AGI is when a company accepts liability and doesn’t bury “for entertainment purposes only” deep in their TOS. Same as it works with employees. Same for self-driving. Your car is not self-driving until it accepts liability and you count as just a passenger. But watch as Germany soon loses AI Google results.

That'd be so great. No more cursing if I forgot the "-ai" or "-ki" flag in my search and see this odious AI overview processing window rendering slowly and taking up the space where my search results should be.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#227
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important for whom exactly? If it's you who are called convicted pedo by Google AI summary, it's you who has vital interest in additional research but not me who reads it. There's intentions mismatch. Which probably would destroy your life, and you won't call it "entertainment" then, I think.

Strawmen are for scaring off the crows, not discussion fodder. Take it out to the farm where it belongs.

Could you elaborate what in my thesis of intentions mismatch makes you think it is not a valid argument?

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#228

The irony of an article that makes a false claim about what Google was found liable for.... and that very few are fact checking it :) The law they broke was a law protecting personal and business reputation against false statements of fact. Essentially no one can say I might be wrong, check yourself, but X is Y if that claim is essentially defamatory. This is pretty good, I hope googles approach is to make sure they…

[deleted]

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#229
post #18

Good. The true mark of AGI is when a company accepts liability and doesn’t bury “for entertainment purposes only” deep in their TOS. Same as it works with employees. Same for self-driving. Your car is not self-driving until it accepts liability and you count as just a passenger. But watch as Germany soon loses AI Google results.

> The true mark of AGI is when a company accepts liability and doesn’t bury “for entertainment purposes only” deep in their TOS.

I don't think so. It is easy to imagine the following (currently only fictional) scenario: the AGI does give perfectly correct answers (in a suitable sense), but some people in power consider these answers to be too dangerous, so they sue the company behind the AGI on terms of liability (i.e. the company is liable if the AGI gives answers that those in power don't like and which these people consider to be too dangerous for the public to know).

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#230
post #81

How could anything else make any sense? Platforms are getting used to provide dangerous broken products and get away with it. There should be some limit to it. Next do Amazon that is selling AI generated foraging books: - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/01/mushroom-... When I was a kid it was possible to buy any foraging books from a store and they had a minimum quality. Is that so difficult to achiev…

>How could anything else make any sense?

Well, they disclaimed and the user acknowledged

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-QaEB5eXSU Minute 3:00

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