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American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

221–230 of 360 posts

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#221
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median net wage in 2023 the US is $43,222 as per https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html You're talking about median earners putting away more than half of their pay. If we look at full time workers that may go up to about $1200 per week or (after federal income tax) about $57k per year - https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf So you're still looking at 43% of every pay packet. And 50% of full-time worker…

The average household income in the US is $83,730 and the median is $121,000. It's also irrelevant. The average is weighed down by students and retirees. If you look at only people in their peak earning years (40-50) then the median jumps further. But thank you for the comment. It perfectly exemplifies the attitude of most Americans. Born on third base and feeling entitled to blow their entire paycheck every month an…

> The average household income in the US is $83,730 and the median is $121,000.

> The average is weighed down by students and retirees.

What's your source? For a start these appear to be the wrong way round - https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28...

And beyond that... yes? These figures are for all households, not necessarily households with people in full time work, which is a pre-requisite to looking at your claims properly. As such your household income figures don't give us a good picture to evaluate them.

The figures I quoted were for people in full time work, much more relevant to your statement, and no, they aren't weighed down by anything.

> If you look at only people in their peak earning years (40-50) then the median jumps further.

Why would I do that? Your claim was that people could become millionaires over the course of 20 years by saving $25k per annum. The median person in full time work would have a very hard time doing that as shown by the figures I gave you. And they are better off than fully half of other full time workers. Unless you have some compelling (sourced) figures about lifetime earnings that negate this, it doesn't really help us.

> It perfectly exemplifies the attitude of most Americans. Born on third base and feeling entitled to blow their entire paycheck every month and then still asking for hand outs.

Wow, OK.

Well firstly I'm not American, I'm British, soon to be Australian and might eventually become Irish (by descent) as well. No US in the picture though. Never had a state handout in my life, and my net worth is already well over your target threshold.

What I have (that you seem to be missing) is empathy for people who don't have it so good and a basic understanding of figures.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#222
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you're genuinely curious, a few suggestions that I personally found incredibly enlightening: Anand Giridhardas, Winners Take All: The book is fantastic, there's also his now infamous google talk where he talks about dismantling google: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_zt3kGW1NM Thomas Piketty, Capital in the 21st century: Probably the most comprehensive (but at times also longwinded) outline on how wealth inequalit…

And also check "Escape from capitalism" by Mattei.

https://youtu.be/9M_dq_0ljsc?si=xkqtCs4YRor-NTyz

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth inequality leads to lots and lots of power concentrated in a few people. That’s the problem. It’s a money aristocratic system, and that’s really bad for anyone not belonging to the aristocracy. And if they continue on this path, we might see heads roll.

1 man, 1 vote.

Rich man, PAC advertising

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#225
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I agree that _some_ redistribution is necessary for a healthy society. But the cost of slowing growth must be weighted agaist it. And populist calls for "no billionaires" etc are going to be bad for all, including the poor, in the end

Almost in violent agreement. Disagree about the billionaire bit. Accumulates too much power too narrowly. Then one can subvert the market and rule of law. It seems the line lies somewhere between a hundred million and billion dollars at the current value of a dollar. I am happy and eager to make exceptions on a case by case basis if that billion dollars have been made in exchange of tangible goods and services.

I just see political influence as separate issue. Make sure they cannot lobby/donate (prison if they do) and problem solved.

Why being tangiable so important? E.g. a billionare made it on physical music CD cs one made it on music streaming? As long as it's legal, why prioritize physical form?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#226
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average household income in the US is $83,730 and the median is $121,000. It's also irrelevant. The average is weighed down by students and retirees. If you look at only people in their peak earning years (40-50) then the median jumps further. But thank you for the comment. It perfectly exemplifies the attitude of most Americans. Born on third base and feeling entitled to blow their entire paycheck every month an…

> The average household income in the US is $83,730 and the median is $121,000. > The average is weighed down by students and retirees. What's your source? For a start these appear to be the wrong way round - https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28... And beyond that... yes? These figures are for all households, not necessarily households with people in full time work, which is a pre-requisite to…

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28...

> I'm not American

Yea I had a feeling. I'd caution you not to buy into the Internet doom and gloom. Most people retire on far less than 500k even and are doing just fine. Because the people that tend to live on less also live in the parts of the country where you can still buy a house for 100k.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a rather public example but DOGE did immense damage and was facilitated by the ability to leverage wealth into power. There is a dangerous feedback cycle.

[flagged]

https://muskdeathcount.com/

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...You are using "wealth" in a way completely foreign to how I have ever seen it used linguistically. The abundance of resources available to an individual that we call "wealth" colloquially being transferable or tradable is basically the hallmark of a market economy. It can absolutely concentrate within one, because if it can be traded, it can absolutely be not traded decreasing the velocity of that value transfer t…

Again, wealth is created, not "concentrated". The term "wealth" means the dollars you would get if you sold everything. > wealth does, in fact, concentrate Nope, because the people trading with you thought the exchange was of equal value, or they wouldn't have engaged in it.

The term you're looking for is "surplus". The consumer sees a surplus of value because the price they paid is below the maximum they're willing to pay, and the producer sees a surplus because the price they charged was more than the cost to produce the good. In this economic system both parties benefit. Economic surplus is the thing that is "created" with every transaction. "Surplus accumulation" as a concept doesn't make any sense, and is isomorphic to what you think people are saying when they use the phrase "wealth accumulation." You should update your definition of "wealth".

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#229
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People vote for old idiots . i think this is also a syndrome not a cause

Agree, coming from a 3rd country to US what I have personally perceived a lot is the generational loop at the later stage..."Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." — G. Michael Hopf

All these people working in NASA must have had terrible childhood.

We can selectively breed astronauts by beating them from early childhood.

People don’t realize how stupid this quote is.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#230
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average household income in the US is $83,730 and the median is $121,000. > The average is weighed down by students and retirees. What's your source? For a start these appear to be the wrong way round - https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28... And beyond that... yes? These figures are for all households, not necessarily households with people in full time work, which is a pre-requisite to…

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28... > I'm not American Yea I had a feeling. I'd caution you not to buy into the Internet doom and gloom. Most people retire on far less than 500k even and are doing just fine. Because the people that tend to live on less also live in the parts of the country where you can still buy a house for 100k.

Yes, so that link is the same one I gave you, and confirms you have your average and your median the wrong way around.

> Most people retire on far less than 500k even and are doing just fine

Soooo .... walking back all those claims about everyday folks being able to become millionaires just by showing up to work?

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