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Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

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Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#221

Post by duskdozer »

gf000 wrote: post #218
duskdozer wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Log in using wayland -> no desktop. Log in using x11 -> desktop. Clearly it's "wayland related" even if whatever root cause it is is something you wouldn't consider directly attributable to it. Logging into a graphical session is something that has just worked out of the box each other install on whatever random hardware I've used for many years. How is that classified as some nitpicky "new thing bad" complaint?

Well, it's like new car doesn't start but you have forgotten to put fuel into it, and now blame the car. This is Linux desktop, like if you have never had a black screen before then I'm not sure what you expect. One culprit could actually be the home .config/.cache folders that have all kind of sh*t accumulated (like why do we still do it this way? It's horrible), so I usually rename them and try again to see if this…

Well, if I never had to put fuel into my old car then this would be a step back, no? I'm not a stranger to troubleshooting, and do a lot of it already, which occupies my energy and time for troubleshooting. I use Debian stable for a reason. It's mostly that if I didn't go looking for a new thing, it doesn't provide anything new that I want, it removes old things that I want, and it doesn't work without troubleshooting, why do I want this thing?

This specifically isn't the biggest issue for me right now because I use this machine mainly over ssh, but if I eventually can't do x-forwarding, RDP, or log in manually without finding some fix, that's a lot of extra work and lost functionality.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#222

Post by buovjaga »

lunixbochs wrote: post #189
suby wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it's unfortunate that Talon is closed source. You see this even in the support practices adopted, where all support is routed through a slack chatroom which doesn't let you view history older than I want to say a few months but might be wrong on the length of time. The author seems to want to force all support requests to go directly through him, presumably because it increases his income if he can creat…

Hi, I'm the developer of Talon. It's possible to do the simple compositor specific hacks from Talon's scripting system to give yourself partial Wayland support at roughly the quality I'd be able to provide myself, and I know of a couple efforts to do this. The tentative plan for "dropping support for X11" is just to do one more public Linux X11 release, stop there, leave it available to download, and make it very cle…

A KDE developer commented: https://nocoffei.com/?p=451#comment-736

Quote:

>As a community, gather together, and successfully implement the entire API surface needed for Talon on GNOME, KDE, and wlroots,

Can you help find where we can work out this list?

An all or nothing probably isn’t going to work, but we can chip away at this.

There are definitely people who want to help.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#223

Post by mariusor »

The_President wrote: post #116
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

The Bluetooth integration needs work - missing features such as "never connect automatically." Default lock screen experience still has a needless delay of 5 seconds when entering a wrong (even blank wrong) password, even on the first attempt. +1 on the gamma controls

That sounds like tarpitting, or perhaps timing attacks protection, rather than anything wrong in the password check pipeline.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#226

Post by jolmg »

amlib wrote: post #158
cwillu wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screentearing has been solved on x11 for a decade; if nvidia don't support TearFree in the driver, that's an nvidia issue, not an X11 issue.

Until you connect a second monitor.

Have had 4 1440p monitors connected at once for some time. Haven't had tearing issues.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#227

Post by 4thguy »

unethical_ban wrote: post #164

It seems to me like such a drastic change in the underlying system (removing support of one of two major display platforms) would mandate a major version change. Complete removal of X11 should be an event to trigger KDE 7.0.

I agree. IMO this is a breaking change. It seems like some (many?) accessibility tools don't work on Wayland, so this breaks users' workflow if they need those tools

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#228

Post by poulpy123 »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #163

dumb question, with LLMs being so prolific now, why is this sort of a thing.. a thing? Why not us an agent to maintain code people use, but humans don't have time to keep up with? or at least, are agents being used in FOSS software widely for such ends, at least to reduce the burden and cheapen the cost of delivering quality FOSS experience?

Lol

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#229

Post by gf000 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #27
laszlokorte wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about the detailed technical differences between X11 and Wayland but with Hyprland for me the PIP is working as expected so I assume its not just a Wayland issue but specific to the window manager you are using? Maybe somebody else can explain?

Isn't that usually how it goes? Wayland is a million little optional protocols, which in the abstract is a lovely idea but in practice means which things work depends on which grab-bag of features your compositor supports.

It's a bit like the web. You have a pretty slow moving list of "protocols" that are well-supported by everyone, and some "new experimental" ones that are only supported by one or two.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#230

Post by timhh »

The_President wrote: post #116
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

The Bluetooth integration needs work - missing features such as "never connect automatically." Default lock screen experience still has a needless delay of 5 seconds when entering a wrong (even blank wrong) password, even on the first attempt. +1 on the gamma controls

> Default lock screen experience still has a needless delay of 5 seconds when entering a wrong (even blank wrong) password, even on the first attempt.

I suspect that is not KDE's fault (or Wayland's) - it's probably PAM, which by default has a 2 second delay (+/- 50%). That default is extremely difficult to change, but you can configure it. See my instructions here: https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/issues/778#issuecomme...

Also if you follow that issue you can see I've been trying to convince the PAM developers to fix it (by changing it to a 0.5 second delay, which is much more tolerable and no less secure). Unfortunately they have this weird idea that users want the delay, because it lets them recompose their thoughts after getting the password wrong or something like that.

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