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macOS needs its grid back

blog.hopefullyuseful.com

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Re: macOS needs its grid back

#221

Post by Wowfunhappy »

xp84 wrote: post #9

> If they approve, the settings open, then the user has to find the specific little toggle and enable it. Another security prompt then done. Why isn’t this at most 2 prompts? Answer: Because modern-day Apple has subscribed to a particular brand of mitigation for the "noobs will always click 'Allow' especially if you ask them to first" problem. The mitigation is that Apple just dumps you on step 2 of a little 4-5 step…

The solution is that you as the nerd should be able to prove your skills once instead of every time. This is why I’ve personally never had an issue with Gatekeeper—one `spctl --master-disable` and a trip to the Settings menu and you’re done. Why can’t TCC work like this?

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#222

Post by Wowfunhappy »

comboy wrote: post #109
xp84 wrote: post #9

> If they approve, the settings open, then the user has to find the specific little toggle and enable it. Another security prompt then done. Why isn’t this at most 2 prompts? Answer: Because modern-day Apple has subscribed to a particular brand of mitigation for the "noobs will always click 'Allow' especially if you ask them to first" problem. The mitigation is that Apple just dumps you on step 2 of a little 4-5 step…

> As a complete nerd, you'd think maybe I'd like that I can prove my skills like this, but it comes off as deeply disrespectful to me as the user that I can't disable this. You seem to have understood the problem. But then you didn't follow. If there was a way to disable this, first thing that the grandma would do is watch a video how to disable that and lose security from then on. Of course it is not perfect, but th…

> If there was a way to disable this, first thing that the grandma would do is watch a video how to disable that and lose security from then on.

My grandma absolutely would not watch and follow a video on how to e.g. disable Gatekeeper, nor do I think she’d be able to if she tried.

Your grandma sounds substantially more tech savvy than my grandma. Good for her, she seems to know what she wants. Grown adults should be allowed to knowingly opt into an additional level of risk.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#223

Post by KoolKat23 »

throw0101a wrote: post #162
KoolKat23 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point it's a them problem.

> At that point it's a them problem. Except when it becomes a reputational problem for the OEM: Excel sucks at X (i.e., don't use it for that) and Excel sucks can become equivalent in many people's minds. Sometimes it is actually a problem of people 'holding it wrong' (as the meme/trope goes). And who gets the blame?

I'd say, the reasonable person test, if the mistake sounds like one a reasonable person would make, then fine.

I guess sadly the press will gloss over all the intricacies for a few clicks.

I also feel that dumbing things down probably just exacerbates this problem as "reasonable folk" have no clue how you actually get from a to b.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#224

Post by willtemperley »

mortenjorck wrote: post #54

I can never prove it, but I like to think I'm the one to credit/blame for inspiring Apple to "inexplicably restrict [spaces] to a horizontal line only" in Leopard. I produced a concept video in 2009 that prominently featured a linear window manager with gestural navigation, and while it's mostly forgotten today, it was covered by all the tech press at the time and inspired a few attempts at adapting some of its idiom…

I like the concept. Assuming you were the inspiration for this (very possible) how do you feel about the usability?

I spent an hour today trying to get it working the way I’d expect and it still does odd things, like after disabling automatic reordering based on usage the order is different when 3 finger swiping previews as opposed to actual windows. The visual order is as expected but the swipe order is not linear.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#225

Post by jlarocco »

valleyer wrote: post #92
jlarocco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a while since I dumped OSX and went back to Linux, but IIRC, this setting gets reset every time the system updates. At some point Apple realized the "power user" market was too small, and they were better off treating all of their users like idiots. And that's when I left.

I've had SIP disabled for years, across many updates.

Could have been something else then, but (in the past, at least) they would definitely reset some of the settings on every major upgrade.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#226

Post by ahofmann »

zimmund wrote: post #213

The window (miss)management of MacOS is what's holding me from switching to Mac. I've already tried Aerospace and similar solutions, but I can't replicate the fast and unobstructed experience I have with i3wm. Sadly wm in MacOS is like notifications on iOS: with enough time you get used to the unproductive mess they are, but you'll be missing out on better solutions. And since probably all MacOS devs are using Mac, t…

I switched to MacOS a few months ago from sway and I really try to be as open as possible to the mac way of life, because I don't want to fight my OS. But, boy, mission control is unusable crap. I was really shocked how dumb everything around this feature was made. Things that were possible a few years ago, are not possible anymore. Like switching to desktops/workspaces by keyboard. Or the grid.

With the app "AltTab" I can at least switch between my apps without using the mouse and with raycast I can position windows, but it is painful how much slower switching and positioning things in MacOS is, than in any tiling window manager.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#228

Post by moduspol »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #222
comboy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a complete nerd, you'd think maybe I'd like that I can prove my skills like this, but it comes off as deeply disrespectful to me as the user that I can't disable this. You seem to have understood the problem. But then you didn't follow. If there was a way to disable this, first thing that the grandma would do is watch a video how to disable that and lose security from then on. Of course it is not perfect, but th…

> If there was a way to disable this, first thing that the grandma would do is watch a video how to disable that and lose security from then on. My grandma absolutely would not watch and follow a video on how to e.g. disable Gatekeeper, nor do I think she’d be able to if she tried. Your grandma sounds substantially more tech savvy than my grandma. Good for her, she seems to know what she wants. Grown adults should be…

She would ask a grandchild or neighborhood kid to fix it, and then it would be disabled.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#229

Post by moduspol »

merlindru wrote: post #122
comboy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a complete nerd, you'd think maybe I'd like that I can prove my skills like this, but it comes off as deeply disrespectful to me as the user that I can't disable this. You seem to have understood the problem. But then you didn't follow. If there was a way to disable this, first thing that the grandma would do is watch a video how to disable that and lose security from then on. Of course it is not perfect, but th…

Could make it disable-able only from the terminal in recovery mode. That one would be too hard / bothersome to fend off most cases I feel like

No, it would just become something you ask your tech-savvy nephew to fix for you. Windows is (or used to be) full of things like this.

Re: macOS needs its grid back

#230

Post by paularmstrong »

npilk wrote: post #219
leojfc wrote: post #142

Yes, and I'd go a step further: OSes in general need a concept of a 'project' or 'task' or whatever, which a) cuts across apps and b) integrates deeply with windowing and spaces. Multitasking and context switching has been increasing for years, instant messaging boosted them again, and agent-based workflows are only going to push further in that direction. The OS needs to support that, and it's not an app-level conce…

I feel like Arc nailed this perfectly with the vertical tabs and multiple "spaces", and since almost everything happens in-browser these days, this was 99% good enough. I can't understand why more power users don't find this setup ideal. I'm hoping Zen Browser can become a solid replacement.

Zen has been working as a full replacement for Arc for me since the Atlassian acquisition. There are only minor things that I miss from Arc ("development mode").
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