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Shunning AI is the human choice

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Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#221

Post by debazel »

zozbot234 wrote: post #150
XorNot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part the AI advocates don't seem to get. There's nothing to learn with AI: each new model is better then the last. Requires less input to achieve a workable result. The advocacy has always felt like cope to me and you see it in the advertising and LinkedIn: "get ready for AI", "adapt your AI workflows" - it's all centered on saying "you need the skills for the new thing so you don't get left behind". But…

> There's nothing to learn with AI You need to steer the AI effectively and assess its results, otherwise you just get nonsense. That takes real-world knowledge. In fact availability of AI makes knowledge skills more valuable, not less.

The amount of steering necessary is rapidly decreasing. You're looking at a way too small timeline if you think this will be sustainable, or you're hoping that LLMs will hit their peak very soon.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#222

Post by jesse_dot_id »

frizlab wrote: post #176
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #141

The hate around AI is entirely earned by the CEOs of the companies pushing the frontier models and integrating them into social media. Spending time and compute on generative audio and video was incredibly short-sighted. I think it was born of some arrogance that they were speeding towards the inevitability of AGI and now they're stuck with models that are as good as they're going to be due to poisoning, and very exp…

I don’t think it’s only that. I personally hate AI not because of CEOs and co, but because the tech is intrinsically born out of theft, and is still, to this day, evolving thanks to theft. And that’s even before the ecological considerations.

I've been on the free information train my entire life, back to my little hacker punk days in the 90's, so my opinion on that isn't worth much. I do think that the ecological considerations are also entirely the fault of the aforementioned CEOs. Machine learning research has been ongoing in good faith since the 40's. Blaming the technology is kind of silly. Imagine if we had banned trains because the robber barons were assholes in the 1830's.

This technology is going to drive some incredible discoveries in all of STEM. The robber barons and monopolists tend to come out of the woodwork when incredible technologies emerge. It just sucks that we still haven't evolved them out of society.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#223

Post by justonepost2 »

echelon wrote: post #213
righthand wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being upset about blocked traffic for a protest but not upset that the rich are trying to kill off the labor market is the exact hilariously short sighted issue.

> kill off the labor market This is such a comical take. There is going to be more demand, not less. And hypothetically, if they did kill off the labor market, they did it in the wrong country. Everyone here owns guns. Work will be fine.

> There is going to be more demand, not less.

Every time. Shake an AI optimist and you find an AI skeptic.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#224

Post by packetlost »

d0liver wrote: post #181
tptacek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a normative argument in the parent that's reasonable to engage and rebut, but there's also a positive component that's less easy to take issue with. It really isn't going anywhere, no matter what world you want to live in. People were upset about databases in the 1980s (some still are).

What makes you say that AI is not going anywhere? I hear this overwhelmingly, "AI is here to stay", as if y'all are so caught up in the movement that you've started taking that conclusion as being the axiom. TBH, it feels like a religion.

Short of societal collapse, there's no way the technology is going to go away or fade out of existence (unless it's replaced by something even better), that's just not how technological progress works. It's useful, probably in ways we haven't even thought of yet.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#225

Post by righthand »

echelon wrote: post #213
righthand wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being upset about blocked traffic for a protest but not upset that the rich are trying to kill off the labor market is the exact hilariously short sighted issue.

> kill off the labor market This is such a comical take. There is going to be more demand, not less. And hypothetically, if they did kill off the labor market, they did it in the wrong country. Everyone here owns guns. Work will be fine.

Everyone here owns guns? I think you might want to check your stats on that. There is going to be more demand for labor? How? Most of our economy right now is leveraged toward building data centers, that’s infinite growth? When it drops off you think the mass layoffs from the last half-decade wont continue? Do you think everyone is going to shift into painting? Please enlighten us with how the demand for labor will increase miraculously when all the implementers are aligned to decrease it.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#226

Post by Jtarii »

goda90 wrote: post #190
Jtarii wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans will not flourish if you remove their jobs, they will become violent criminals because they will have nothing else to fill their days and no purpose in their community. People may hate their job, but they will hate being unemployed way more.

People can find purpose without jobs. But they can't find purpose if they are struggling to survive. If jobs are the only legal path to survival, and there are no jobs, then people will be driven to "crime" to survive.

Things young people do if they are bored:

1. Have sex

2. Break things

3. Play videogames

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#227

Post by the_gastropod »

dmantis wrote: post #210
d0liver wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say that AI is not going anywhere? I hear this overwhelmingly, "AI is here to stay", as if y'all are so caught up in the movement that you've started taking that conclusion as being the axiom. TBH, it feels like a religion.

Why would it? It's a technology, not an artifical belief system to just disappear because people got tired of it. Hype might go away, along with some of today's usages, but the fact that we know about the technology means it will stay in one fo or another.

In other words, it’s a thought terminating cliche. Why say it?

The Juicero is here to stay! There’s no putting the genie back in the bottle.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#228

Post by guelo »

BosunoB wrote: post #165
frotaur wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people disagree with this. The main problem is that labour has been what allows regular people to have negociating power with those who own most of the capital. People are worried that if they lose this leverage, nothing is stopping the few who have most of the capital to just disregard the needs of the masses.

Democracy is what allows regular people to have negotiating power vs the rich, and the majority of these battles are actually won through legislation, not union negotiation. I understand that regular people have lost faith in democracy, and that they think rich people control the world and make every major decision, but that just doesn't ring true to me. Democracy is more or less giving us what we vote for, we just v…

AI is helping to finish off the job of destroying democracy that the rich started. We are doomed.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#229

Post by deaton »

frizlab wrote: post #176
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #141

The hate around AI is entirely earned by the CEOs of the companies pushing the frontier models and integrating them into social media. Spending time and compute on generative audio and video was incredibly short-sighted. I think it was born of some arrogance that they were speeding towards the inevitability of AGI and now they're stuck with models that are as good as they're going to be due to poisoning, and very exp…

I don’t think it’s only that. I personally hate AI not because of CEOs and co, but because the tech is intrinsically born out of theft, and is still, to this day, evolving thanks to theft. And that’s even before the ecological considerations.

The IP considerations, environmental considerations, "lol we're gonna destroy the world and get you laid off" considerations, and of course the big middle finger given to artists of all types, from authors to musicians... They painted themselves as villains and then they were shocked when people viewed them as such.

Re: Shunning AI is the human choice

#230

Post by jesse_dot_id »

MisterTea wrote: post #207
frizlab wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s only that. I personally hate AI not because of CEOs and co, but because the tech is intrinsically born out of theft, and is still, to this day, evolving thanks to theft. And that’s even before the ecological considerations.

It's numerous. CEO's lying, ceo-ceo marketing - fire your employees and use AI, environmental impact, social impact, memory/chip shortages, theft of information which has placed a massive burden on site operators assaulted by scraper traffic. I'm sure I'm missing a few but the negatives are real but so long as people get to feel like 10x engineers, it's fine. Personally, I find AI technology itself super interesting.…

They're not firing employees to replace them with AI. We're mostly engineers here I think. Does anyone actually believe they're replacing humans with the same AI that we're using in our day-to-days? I don't know about you, but my harnesses absolutely suck without a human driving them and the more knowledgeable the human, the less they suck.

It's obvious they're just using AI as cloud-cover to act like assholes in the typical ways in which they would normally act like assholes.

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