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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#221

Post by pizzafeelsright »

Calavar wrote: post #108
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years returns S&P 500 (index of all those better than Musk): 261% Tesla: 2700% Disclaimer: My portfolio is 65% Tesla.

GME also beat the S&P 500 over the past 10 years. Is this evidence that Ryan Cohen is a business genius? Tesla has been a meme stock for about five years now, maybe more. Its valuation correlates with Musk's abilities as a showman and media figure, not a businessman.

I was responding to the idea Musk is not a good businessman. I think the evidence suggests otherwise.

Market Cap: Tesla (TSLA): ~$1.4T GameStop (GME): ~$9.7B

If anything, GME is a meme.

I also gave my bias so as a way to ignore me.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#222

Post by pizzafeelsright »

dragontamer wrote: post #165
pizzafeelsright wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years returns S&P 500 (index of all those better than Musk): 261% Tesla: 2700% Disclaimer: My portfolio is 65% Tesla.

So you are personally invested in this and openly admit to it. And yet expect me to take a discussion with you seriously? Normally the way this works, is you excuse yourself away from a debate for being too financially involved in the situation, knowing that your financial bias is too overwhelming.

I do not expect you to take me seriously.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#223

Post by fastball »

dragontamer wrote: post #167
fastball wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla wasn't "successful" before he "took it over" (read: invested most of their seed capital and ran the actual day-to-day operations). SpaceX, founded entirely by him alone, is also the most valuable space technology company on earth, so...

Well sure. But that's not AI chips or FSD. The subject of this whole topic. Within this realm of AI, Musk has constantly invested and failed. Dojo, xAI, Grok. His newest idea is leveraging SpaceX money to put data centers in Space. Good luck with that.

Your previous comment was clearly not constraining itself to the realm of AI chips / FSD. Regardless:

How do you measure Dojo, xAI, and Grok being failures?

Dojo is training models for FSD, which is in operation today. The chips in Tesla cars are also taped in-house / vertically integrated, a lot of which is presumably shared investment with the chips needed for the Dojo training side specifically.

Separating xAI from Grok (in a list like this) is kinda weird, but seems that Grok is actually a very capable LLM, even if it is not best-in-practice. Even if not beating out the top 3 labs, it certainly seems to be in the top 5 by most metrics. The xAI Colossus data centers are real AI training/inference infrastructure that were stood up in record time, and they are now selling capacity to other LLM providers. Is that a failure?

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#224

Post by knicholes »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #219
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk should have just made another company and then he’d have another 500 billion but he had that mistake and now it’s over. Then again we’ll see how well open ai does over the long term

I sometimes wonder, what does one need a second 500 billion that the first 500 billion is not enough for?

Getting to Mars, it would seem.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#225

Post by nkozyra »

Freedom2 wrote: post #55
dzonga wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muskys problem is does things in the moment as a way to increase popularity without thinking that end up bitting him. e.g the twitter thing - forced to buy when he didn't want.

I wonder if a more "hardcore" team, by his words, would have handled this legal case better?

A more "hardcore" team will keep telling him he can win on appeals, and bill accordingly.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#226

Post by adrr »

mrhottakes wrote: post #203
atom_arranger wrote: post #137

Aside from the disagreements between these parties, what about the precedent of running a non-profit, and then transferring all IP to a for profit when it’s convenient to do so? I wonder if the government or taxpayers have a case to bring regarding that.

Transactions like that happen all the time and are not problematic if handled legally. Any of the interested parties could have sued over it, but none have.

Because they got to participate in the early investment in the for profit entity.

> Early Angels (Reid Hoffman, Peter Thiel, and others): Approximately $10 million invested, current value $1.4 billion. That corresponds to a return of around 140x.

https://www.trendingtopics.eu/openai-cap-table-leak/

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#227

Post by big_toast »

granzymes wrote: post #169
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk should have just made another company and then he’d have another 500 billion but he had that mistake and now it’s over. Then again we’ll see how well open ai does over the long term

Evidence at trial showed that Musk attempted to pursue AGI at Tesla starting in 2017 before he left the board of OpenAI. He was unsuccessful in that endeavor and later restarted his efforts in xAI after the success of ChatGPT.

Musk leaves the board in 2018 I think. And something happens in DX-754 where they've pivoted to AI in SpaceX around then too. I had a lot of trouble telling what "AI" meant in late 2017 at Tesla.

---

Sept 1, 2017 DX-669: Funding paused confirmation. Elon is still on the board for a while. DX-707 specifies the board as of Sept 26, 2017, and even suggests adding Shivon, Jared, Sam Teller.

Jan 31, 2018 DX-748: Elon is still discussing things with Greg. Elon: "The only paths I can think of are a major expansion of OpenAI and a major expansion of Tesla AI. Perhaps both simultaneously"

Feb 3, 2018 DX-754: Sam Teller says Elon "just suggested we use SpaceX email for AI stuff so switching over to that"

Feb 4, 2018 DX-755: Sam Teller and Shivon Zilis discuss disabling Openai

Feb 20, 2018 DX-770: Elon officially leaves board (first document I see specifying)

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#228

Post by dragontamer »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #222
dragontamer wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are personally invested in this and openly admit to it. And yet expect me to take a discussion with you seriously? Normally the way this works, is you excuse yourself away from a debate for being too financially involved in the situation, knowing that your financial bias is too overwhelming.

I do not expect you to take me seriously.

Nor I you.

But started this by pointing out Elon Musks weakness in the field of AI, and the best anyone seems to have come up so far is that Elon Musk has more money so it doesn't matter. It's not quite the flex that the Musk fanboys think it is.

The simplest solution would have been to ya know, point at an Elon Musk AI win. And Dojo, xAI, Grok are all relative failures in these respects.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#229

Post by robofanatic »

dylan604 wrote: post #162
exe34 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, twitter ended up useful for him when he used it to buy his way into the US government and close down all the departments that were investigating his companies for breaking all sorts of laws.

Did the total of fines the US gov't was looking to levy on Musk total up to more than the $44Billion he spent on Twitter?

$44B is peanuts for a soon to be trillionaire

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#230

Post by nkozyra »

saalweachter wrote: post #151
aniviacat wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If shareholders have to pay the debt, then the shares will be less valuable, and Musk (whose wealth is measured in shares) will be less wealthy, no?

Musk only owns 42% of SpaceX; he only takes 42% of the loss as if he continued to own Twitter outright.

Well Twitter has other investors, too.

But he'll also likely be shaving equity here and there along the way to hedge this bet.

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