Live data from Hacker News

Heat pump sales rise across Europe

pv-magazine.com

221–227 of 227 posts

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#221
post #195

Remember: every heat pump is a semi-permanent move to electricity over other fuels. People almost never go back. This isn't just a temporary improvement.

Interesting looking at how EV sales plumented.

1. EV sales are skyrocketing in most of the world.

2. EV sales going down does not contradict what that person said, unless you have data about people who already own EVs are suddenly switching back to combustion, which is not observed.

If you have any data contradicting those, I'd love to see them, otherwise I think you're just spouting rot.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incentives. Landlord pays for the installation and decides, tenant for the operation/heating. Best way to get around this is making heat pumps more accessible (easy to get, financing options), as well as legislation (banning gas/oil heating).

>Best way to get around this is making heat pumps more accessible (easy to get, financing options), as well as legislation (banning gas/oil heating). So if people on HN see what the solution is, why isn't the Austrian government doing it, to get rid of polluting fossil fuel heating in the cities?

Austria has really good subsidies for households. The "subsidy stop" the article refers to was stopping 100% subsidies. Austria has an incredibly progressive and green environmental and energy policy.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Best way to get around this is making heat pumps more accessible (easy to get, financing options), as well as legislation (banning gas/oil heating). So if people on HN see what the solution is, why isn't the Austrian government doing it, to get rid of polluting fossil fuel heating in the cities?

Austria has really good subsidies for households. The "subsidy stop" the article refers to was stopping 100% subsidies. Austria has an incredibly progressive and green environmental and energy policy.

>Austria has really good subsidies for households. Austria has an incredibly progressive and green environmental and energy policy.

Then why are most Austrian apartment buildings in cities still burning oil and gas for heating and not all switched to heat pumps if it's so green and progressive? Why is Graz air quality getting worse and worse?

> The "subsidy stop" the article refers to was stopping 100% subsidies.

Which article? What subsidies? What are you talking about? I never mentioned anything like this.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#224
post #54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beurocratic and political limitation. Firewood and heating oil isn't cheaper, it merely has lower upfront cost in exchange for a higher total cost. An efficient governance system (whether that's capitalism and banks with loans or renting out the hearpumps or a centrally planned replacement program or anything else) would figure out the financing and save the system money by updating. Technology can make the incentive…

There is also a minor incentive problem here, mainly that a landlord can/will often offload the running costs, Nebenkosten, to the renters indefinitely. That means they are sometimes economically incentivized to choose an option with lower initial cost but a higher running cost. Governments can/do bend these incentives via taxes but it can be hard/expensive to renovate old complexes (and that part cannot directly be…

Sounds like it's something the government can fix on a whim if it wanted to. Why doesn't it?

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#225
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup 0.6% in 2025 in Europe for sure makes a difference. The moment subsidiary for EVs is removed, sales will plument like in US. And those will be removed as EU is going through energy and resources crisis. EVs make sense only in China, where goverment has a working brain and invests heavly in nuclear power plants.

... Where are you getting that figure? BEV sales grew by about 30% in Europe last year. > And those will be removed as EU is going through energy and resources crisis. ... Which is making petrol cars more expensive to run. Right as EVs are starting to get cheaper than petrol cars. In Ireland, say, an id.Polo starts at at 20k EUR, after a 3500 euro subsidy. A _normal_ Polo starts at 25k. Even without the subsidy, the…

You dont understand how supply and demand works.

Europe has energy deficit. When most ppl want to charge their cars (night) there is no solar power. We have no energy banks and all that power needed to supposedly charge tens of millions of cars would have to come from? Yes -> coal power plants, because our politicians decommissioned nuclear power plants. Lets tak about what is NOW and what can be in next 10 years.

In the coming 10 years vast majority of ppl still wont have passive homes with solar panels and energy banks to charge their cars, so they are 100% dependant on the grid.

Grid is old and not well maintained in majority of EU countries. It has finite transfer power.

Now we throw 500million cars on top of it. Its impossible mathematically and physically.

The moment number of electric cars starts growing, we will need more and more energy, this means more fuel for plants, more plants investitions, more grid investitions etc. It all costs money. So energy companies will bill you MORE and more. If not energy cost protections in countries like Poland or Italy, cost of energy would double next day.

Its all subsidised now, due to war, no fuel, Iran and many other reasons I already mentioned.

So overall its worth it ONLY due to subs and it can be worth it if we invest into our infrastructure for the next 30-50 years.

As it is now - its all just a hoax.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#226
post #25
post #8

A heat pump could win as the best HVAC technology, though a better drilling for ground-sourced ones. Just a shallow drilling (up to 100m) that works in retrofit mode, such as drilling from the basement, would be a great upgrade: - No outdoor unit that looks awful in many settings - works well, even in the coldest winter, without a spike in electricity usage, COP 5 - very reliable with long durability - super quiet, n…

Drilling alone is €10.000. The whole installation of a air/water heat pump is €10.000. Mostly not worth it.

A winter's worth of heating oil is easily 1000€ With the current prices it's nearing 2k€.

Very much worth it.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#227
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting looking at how EV sales plumented.

1. EV sales are skyrocketing in most of the world. 2. EV sales going down does not contradict what that person said, unless you have data about people who already own EVs are suddenly switching back to combustion, which is not observed. If you have any data contradicting those, I'd love to see them, otherwise I think you're just spouting rot.

> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nobody-really-wants-electric-...

Second biggest car manufacturer in Europe says that noone here wants electric cars.

Like I said - ppl with homes and Solar Panel Stack will buy electric cars and for them its amazing deal - if subsidised - even better.

But for average Joe (95% of citizens) this is simply out of reach.

Post reply on HN