Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

derekthompson.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 232 posts

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#221

Post by machomaster »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #51
lazyasciiart wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nearly no one seems to have noticed it. I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, because those topics are so deeply embedded in parenting today that it's like saying "nobody seems to have noticed the internet".

> I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, I had minor children from the early 90s to the late 10s. Parenting discussions were pretty much an ongoing thing. When I contrasted my childhood with my kids', there would be a long pause while the other parents realize it didn't used to always be this way. Perhaps in the last…

The discussion about the negative aspects of helicopter parenting is as old as the term itself.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#222

Post by machomaster »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #213
infermore wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

different advice is appropriate in different situations, believe it or not

Believe it or not, that's a useless fact when there's no obvious specific difference between the situations to make it relevant.

If you don't see a clear difference between the hard sciences of biology/chemistry/medicine and the opinionated "science" of parenting (prescriptive, no less), then you should check your eyes.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#223

Post by machomaster »

Ancapistani wrote: post #181
jaredklewis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I linked that study because it is particularly interesting because they run the mass spec test on archived blood samples. But there are other studies and meta analyses which cover other countries and come to the same conclusion. I think many of the studies claiming to find significant population level decline are older and overstate the issue due to the methodological errors outlined in my previous post. If you are t…

I appreciate it, and will catch up on the current state. It’s been a couple of years since I looked into this.

Here is a short video explaining the situation: https://youtu.be/XT5TKf9Qfl4

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#224

Post by Ancapistani »

illiac786 wrote: post #114
Ancapistani wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2026. Barring severe manipulation/abuse, why would you choose to get married and have children if you're a woman who doesn't want to raise them?

Severely missing the point here. It’s about being criticised and not recognised while doing so. It’s about lack of choice – and no, when you’re 25, you don’t know what this does to you over time. And when you finally do, it’s too late, you’re not going to run away with your kids and no job.

My comment was a response to its parent, beginning:

> Those household structures aren't popular, they're just common when women have no other options.

I agree with what yours, and point out that it applies equally to men. I was 25 when we decided to have our first child and while I would make the same decision knowing what I know now, I didn't have anything near an accurate idea of what the impact would be on my life as a whole.

Basically, I wasn't taking exception to the idea of an irrevocable decision made with incomplete context; I was taking exception to the idea that it's somehow unique to women - because it's not.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#225

Post by [deleted] »

machomaster wrote: post #222
Dylan16807 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, that's a useless fact when there's no obvious specific difference between the situations to make it relevant.

If you don't see a clear difference between the hard sciences of biology/chemistry/medicine and the opinionated "science" of parenting (prescriptive, no less), then you should check your eyes.

[deleted]

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#226

Post by Dylan16807 »

machomaster wrote: post #222
Dylan16807 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, that's a useless fact when there's no obvious specific difference between the situations to make it relevant.

If you don't see a clear difference between the hard sciences of biology/chemistry/medicine and the opinionated "science" of parenting (prescriptive, no less), then you should check your eyes.

I see your point about different qualities of science, but the wording of "highly tuned parental instincts" is still bad. The instincts are the same in both situations, and they're highly flawed. Science should override instincts in lots of situations.

And if you ask basically any kind of science "how do I best accomplish x?", that science will have a "presciptive" answer, so I don't see how parenting science is any more prescriptive then chemistry.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#227

Post by illiac786 »

Ancapistani wrote: post #224
illiac786 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Severely missing the point here. It’s about being criticised and not recognised while doing so. It’s about lack of choice – and no, when you’re 25, you don’t know what this does to you over time. And when you finally do, it’s too late, you’re not going to run away with your kids and no job.

My comment was a response to its parent, beginning: > Those household structures aren't popular, they're just common when women have no other options. I agree with what yours, and point out that it applies equally to men. I was 25 when we decided to have our first child and while I would make the same decision knowing what I know now, I didn't have anything near an accurate idea of what the impact would be on my life…

Ok, sorry, I missed that.

I would add though that while making bad choices is not unique to women, when it comes to mariage, lots of society used to make it so much easier on men. Men could/can escape home in work, hobbies, etc with much less judgement than women. It’s gotten better in some parts of the world, definitely not all, and last years the trend is rather backward I feel.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#228

Post by _doctor_love »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #45
_doctor_love wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> EDIT: if you downvote this comment it means you don't think there are deadbeat dads out there. No, it means that when your attempt to extend the metaphor failed. People who avoid strength exercises just don't get stronger knees. They don't "get stronger knees but by not doing weights".

I suppose. That said I didn't anticipate the negative response.

I have a fair amount of gallows humor around parents and father due to my own experiences in life, sometimes that dark humor doesn't translate well.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#229

Post by lazyasciiart »

iamthemonster wrote: post #124
lazyasciiart wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nearly no one seems to have noticed it. I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, because those topics are so deeply embedded in parenting today that it's like saying "nobody seems to have noticed the internet".

Where I live in Western Australia, it is perfectly normal for 10-year-olds to be getting on their bikes and going round to their friends' houses after school. The swing towards "Fuck Around And Find Out" parenting has been going for the last ten years here, and everybody gives you rapturous applause when you encourage kids to have their own independent playtime. I have also never seen a man at a playground get dirty…

Funnily enough, I know a guy who went into teaching early primary school in Western Australia 20 years ago, and got driven out by the constant suspicion and ever increasing supervision imposed “for his own safety” - no touching kids, at all, to the point of not helping up a kid who falls on the playground; get a female teacher to do it.

Re: American Dads Became the Parents Their Fathers Never Were

#230

Post by lazyasciiart »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #51
lazyasciiart wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nearly no one seems to have noticed it. I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, because those topics are so deeply embedded in parenting today that it's like saying "nobody seems to have noticed the internet".

> I'm very curious how much time you spend talking about parenting and consuming either social media or professional content about parenting, I had minor children from the early 90s to the late 10s. Parenting discussions were pretty much an ongoing thing. When I contrasted my childhood with my kids', there would be a long pause while the other parents realize it didn't used to always be this way. Perhaps in the last…

Foster Cline’s famous parenting book, Parenting with Love and Logic, was published in 1990 and contains warnings about helicopter parenting. The “free range kids” movement, an explicit counter-trend, was worldwide news in 2008 after a woman discussed letting her kid take the subway alone (https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/skenazy). The overprotective parenting trend is widely recognized to have been accelerated by the media saturation of stranger kidnappings in the 80s, including Adam Walsh.

“As of April 30, 2018, the term ‘helicopter parents’ yielded 2 million hits on Google. From March 2014 to February 2018, the keyword ‘helicopter parents’ was searched monthly”. https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3922...

Post reply on HN