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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#221

Post by nerdsniper »

noduerme wrote: post #73
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

>> the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily You must live in a democracy. If you ever lived in a country where the government curtailed freedoms by fiat, you'd understand that it can and it will. I happened to be living in Vietnam when the government just randomly decided one day that smoking would be banned everywhere, effective immediately. You might think that's simpl…

Is it possible to buy nicotine in Vietnam today? Is it de jure illegal but de facto widely available? Did everyone switch from cigarettes to vapes?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#222

Post by subjectsigma »

foobiekr wrote: post #113
subjectsigma wrote: post #50

Natural consequence of socialized medicine. If I’m paying for your healthcare then I (and by extension the state) get a say in basically every aspect of your life. Time to ban alcohol, marijuana, Tylenol, fatty foods, sugar, candles, campfires, fireworks, food coloring, bicycles, playgrounds, cars, cell phones, and anything else that might be harmful

Tylenol is much less dangerous than, say, Advil. It’s only issue is one of overdose which is common to all drugs.

I think you might be missing the point I was trying to make

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#224

Post by herbst »

noduerme wrote: post #74
zbentley wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted Alcohol is heavily restricted, though. You can't sell it to minors, younger minors can't drink it in public, you can't sell/buy/make it above a certain proof, you can only resell it from authorized distributors, it is taxes, and so on. Sure, banning cigarettes for a specific generation is a much more stringent restriction, but plenty of other r…

what if they told you your kids would never be allowed to have a drink?

Awesome! Where can I sign?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#225

Post by BenjiWiebe »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #117
mytailorisrich wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a separate category, that's the general principle in a free society: There is a limit to "doing what you want" when it impacts others/imposes on them. That's why smoking is already heavily regulated in order to limit and minimise the impact that your choice has on others.

On reddit, not so long ago, they were inventing interesting theories about how seat belt laws were justified because without seat belts people would be ejected from cars and kill by standards when their flying carcasses cannonballed through them. The claim that "it impacts others" is, at very minimum, exaggerated, but just as often completely fabricated out of pseudoscience and absurd movie plots. Smoking is heavily…

It impacts first responders. Not only is it bad to respond to an accident with a fatality, it's worse if you can see the would've likely been fine had they worn a seat belt.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#226

Post by pjc50 »

neonstatic wrote: post #129
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

Cigarettes are not incorporated into the UK culture the way alcohol is. Drinking at a pub is sacred to them.

People used to be able to smoke in pubs. But I agree it wasn't quite so culturally foundational.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the idea of a smoking ban, since it was already driven to the margins, but the implementation of it by age is really weird. Clearly a move to avoid annoying pensioners, like everything else.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#227

Post by cucumber3732842 »

lokar wrote: post #212
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving it with money doesn't really solve it unless there's "real" competition. Look at automotive insurance points systems. People have to buy it so the sellers lean on the legislatures and before you know it a ticket costs the same points and screws you out of just as much money as an actual accident.

That seems appropriate. A small fraction of people cause most of the losses, they should pay more.

>That seems appropriate. A small fraction of people cause most of the losses, they should pay more.

Surely that was a satirical comment and was meant to be an illustrative example of exactly the sort of mindset that runs political cover for a system as it pivots from providing enough value to become entrenched to using that entrenched position to behave in an extractive manner.

In my state if grandma gets pulled over for an out of date inspection sticker it's the same number of points as actually causing an accident. Someone is being fleeced.

I have zero faith that letting the government choose at the behest of industry who ought to pay more for healthcare that it wouldn't devolve into the same exact sort of exercise in finding a reason to charge everyone more.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#228

Post by pjc50 »

joegibbs wrote: post #6

Drinking has been decided to be totally fine though, no need to ban that - probably because it's unfashionable to smoke, and the kind of people who come up with these laws find it uncouth. It will also be ridiculous in a few years when the UK inevitably decides to legalise marijuana - totally fine to smoke a joint, but don't you dare put any of that tobacco in it!

Tbh I'm worried that this is directionally bad and we're more likely to see a pointless crackdown on weed.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#229

Post by squigz »

panny wrote: post #220
squigz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the government's perspective, this may (or may not) be silly. But putting that aside, if a citizen supports banning cigarettes for people born after a certain date, but not alcohol, that certainly seems hypocritical to me.

>But putting that aside, if a citizen supports banning cigarettes for people born after a certain date, but not alcohol, that certainly seems hypocritical to me. Why does everyone on HN seem to have a hate boner for alcohol? The main problem there is car culture, not the alcohol. In any case, the hypocritical part is where the UK, like many US states, has legalized marijuana for medical use and is well on its way to…

> Why does everyone on HN seem to have a hate boner for alcohol? The main problem there is car culture, not the alcohol.

I don't really see how car culture has anything to do with stuff like domestic violence, child abuse, or various other side-effects of alcohol culture.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#230

Post by nslsm »

herbst wrote: post #224
noduerme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what if they told you your kids would never be allowed to have a drink?

Awesome! Where can I sign?

It’s awesome to decide what your children, once they are adults, can’t do? Seems borderline psychopathic. Kinda sums up democracy in current times though.
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