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Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

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Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#221

Post by jasomill »

The notion that the work done by "the engineering elite" at tech companies and research organizations aren't contributing to the national defense unless they're pressed into military service or working directly on weapons systems is absurd.

Who does he think invented, designed, and implemented the hardware and software underlying modern military technology?

Or for that matter, the tech that makes running any organization at the scale of the modern US military even possible.

Consider: with computer technology, the Defense Finance and Accounting Service employs over 12,000 people responsible for the Department of Defense's basic accounting functions like accounts payable, accounts receivable, and payroll.

Forget building bombs and drafting soldiers.

Without computer technology, you'd need to draft an army of clerical workers.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#222

Post by quantified »

antisthenes wrote: post #210
quantified wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't be. Just have a more-level playing field, make everyone (college-track or not) participate. You seem to assume that tax dollars are equivalent to labor. A pile of quarters never did anything sitting there, it takes a human to do something for the most part. Money is a tool sitting there, not actual work.

> A pile of quarters never did anything sitting there Luckily, we don't have a pile of quarters sitting there doing anything, because the US operates at a deficit. So dollars are being borrowed then spent on projects.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say there. Borrowing money somehow does useful work without being spent?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#223

Post by dualvariable »

causal wrote: post #177
dualvariable wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you could argue the draft forced the war to be real for more families (and the expansion of TV), intensifying the resistance to it. Yeah, it did, all the young men of draft age had to live knowing that they might get drafted and be forced to fight and die. Even if they were never called, or in retrospect were too old at the time. We seem to have largely forgotten that now, along with the "Vietnam Syndrome"…

> We've also lost the focus on clearly defined objectives for war. Are you saying we had this in Vietnam? And I don't think the evidence is strong that these "hard lessons" did anything to keep that same generation from supporting the pointless wars that followed.

No, I'm saying we had that in the Gulf War, and we're sliding back to Vietnam.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#224

Post by quantified »

_doctor_love wrote: post #207
quantified wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that in American civil society there are only privileges and not responsibilities? Government already got the tax dollars to pay for the service at gunpoint. And makes you get a passport to travel internationally or a driver's license to get yourself around at gunpoint.

> Do you believe that in American civil society there are only privileges and not responsibilities? Funny enough, the only true responsibility I'm aware of is jury duty. And that's only for citizens and everybody tries to get out of it.

All of this is only for citizens. Many try to get out of it, but "everybody" is flat wrong. It sounds like you are aware of, and accept, responsibilities. Nothing wrong with adding to them.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#225

Post by gbnwl »

TrackerFF wrote: post #215

Having grown up in Norway, I did my conscription when I was 18. Not really a big deal - even though I was incredibly unmotivated in the beginning. Back in the old days (read: Cold War days) everyone had to serve, but then as Russia became less of a threat, so did military funding, and the number of conscripted. Today around 15%-20% will be conscripted. But interestingly enough, for the past 10 years we've seen a tren…

I'd wager that being conscripted in Norwary carries a different level of risk of deployment than being conscripted in the US, given the fact that we've been essentially been nonstop involved in wars for my entire lifetime.

When you were conscripted did you fear you might be sent to Iraq or Afganistan? It just feels like given our history an American conscript will litearlly always have some active warzone to possibly be sent off to. Our contries and our armies are not the same. Is Norway today chomping at the bit to send its soldiers to Iran? Or, per Trump, "our next conquest" Cuba? I really don't think you can think of being drafted into the American army the same way you think of the compulsory service of countries like South Korea or your own.

Being conscripted in a defensive army is materially different than being conscripted into one that takes every opportunity to engage in conflicts across the globe.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#226

Post by nobodyandproud »

rhcom2 wrote: post #83
nobodyandproud wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument falls flat, when considering regions like the Ukraine that are fighting for survival today. And when contrasting with earlier times like the Civil War, where a draft was unpopular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrollment_Act

I don't think I follow why your examples contradict the argument. A draft will always be unpopular.

I misread.

I saw the television portion and thought you meant the televised war was what made it all too real.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#227

Post by yeswecatan »

criddell wrote: post #11

Wars used to be paid for by raising taxes. Now we have no idea how much they cost. How many years in a row has the Pentagon failed it's audit? How many years (decades?) was the Iraq war funded through annual (unbudgeted) emergency measures? How many trillions in promised healthcare does America owe its veterans? If the President had to make the case that taking on Iran would cost each American around $1000 on top of…

The most recent episode of the podcast “Search Engine” explored the cost of war and pretty much said exactly what you did. Besides the obvious war is bad, it’s so unfortunate we are passing on the cost to future generations. And for what?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#228

Post by happytoexplain »

stronglikedan wrote: post #158
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> what are American soldiers dying for? The American way of life, which is still the most preferred way of life, as evidenced by (a) people wanting to emigrate here more than any other country in the world and (b) more people immigrating here than any other country.

This is naive. An American soldier hasn't died for the American way of life in decades.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#229

Post by happytoexplain »

nothinkjustai wrote: post #109
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

Why not make the people so proud and happy to live in the country that they choose to serve without you having to force them to do it with the barrel of a gun?

That's two steps. Government and business only cares about instant results.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#230

Post by pibaker »

chromacity wrote: post #63
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility", but you're effectively instilling that at gunpoint: the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison. Is that really such an enlightened thing to do? It takes away two years of your life, po…

> Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility"

I have found that when older people ask young people to do this kind of "mandatory service" they never specify what exactly are they going to do while being on the government's leash.

It's always this warm fuzzy hand wavy "civic responsibility" or "build communities" thing, that they always seem to think is something someone else should do when they are fully capable of doing it themselves.

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