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Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

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Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#221

Post by saghm »

breakfastduck wrote: post #38
SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just buy it then? It reminds me of Valve’s treatment of Black Mesa, which made the community love the company even more. It’d be hilariously easy for Blizzard to spend some money on the thing and just buy the devs out, fans love you for it and it builds good will with a fanbase. Corporations can’t see past the legal aspect of things I guess.

Valve aren't owned by private equity and other giant corporations so they make good decisions and do things fans like. A lot of their entire platform is built on mods they've bought and turned into proper 1st class games (cs, dota, Garys mod etc)

DOTA is an interesting reference here because it also was originally a modification of a Blizzard game. Maybe Valve should hire the TurtleWoW people to make a new MMO for them (maybe called TurtleWhoa"?)

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#222

Post by saghm »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #110
marcus_holmes wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're arrogant, and have critical stakeholders. The fact that someone else took their assets and made a better game runs counter to the story that they're the best in the business.

Arrogant yes but don't forget greedy. Call of Duty is absolutely destroyed brand. Unplayable solely by ridiculous amount of battle passes and stupid fantasy skins.

Also don't forget that around a decade ago they also acquired King, the makers of Candy Crush Saga. They've been all-in on the "get players to pay for extra stuff" for a while now

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#223

Post by goolz »

Self inflicted these incidents are. All Blizzard needs to do is follow the lead of the OSRS team, make the old game and add new breadth, listen to your players not your shareholders. For all the dumb mistakes Jagex has made at least you feel heard with their polling and it feels like their is progression.

The team running WoW just care that you buy the new mount bundle every season. It is no wonder PvP has been dead for like a decade, the races to world first are only two serious guilds competing against each other and in general both Classic and Retail are memes in the year of our lord 2026. Retail in particular is a lobby game, not really an RPG, where you just queue into things and barely have to explore. Perhaps I am just bitter and jaded but I feel like we lost something so special along the way, and that makes me really bummed, haha.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#224

Post by nkrisc »

Ygg2 wrote: post #191
Folcon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I don't disagree with you in this case, but if not this, then to a degree, what is IP for? This just happens to be a positive example, IP still exists to restrict certain kinds of competition I mean you can't get a clearer case of copycatting than this, as much as I'm a fan of pirate servers, assuming that they don't stifle the original game and considering calling Blizzard an 800 pound gorilla is quite an un…

> I mean you can't get a clearer case of copycatting than this I'm pretty sure Turtle WoW has its own storyline, quests, etc. The story focuses heavily on extending Vanilla. In other words, it's not a simple copycat but a fan project. Rather than hiring and vying for talent, Blizzard is CnD their fans away.

So why didn’t they just make a game with their own IP and avoid this whole issue in the first place?

Oh yeah, because people didn’t want a new game, they wanted free WoW.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#225

Post by orphea »

rustyhancock wrote: post #60
saadn92 wrote: post #29

I ran a private server years ago. Two things people in this thread are getting wrong: The engineering is way harder than anyone gives credit for. You're reverse engineering a server protocol from the client binary, writing your own spell systems (thousands of spells, each with edge cases), pathing, instancing, combat mechanics. Then scaling it for a few thousand concurrent players on hardware you're paying for out of…

I was hoping to try out Turtle last summer but didn't get around to it. And had looked into Azerothcore. I hope turtle open sources (if they haven't already and they are allowed to). I do think part of the problem is payment to cover dev time is actually profit. I profit from work, although they are just paying me for my time really.

  I hope turtle open sources
Have private servers shared their work at all? I have a feeling that everyone is redoing everyone's work and keep it private out of rivalry.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#226

Post by saghm »

pfdietz wrote: post #114

It's important to understand it's not just the Turtle WoW people who violated Blizzard's copyrights, it's also anyone who played on Turtle WoW. They don't have licenses to use the clients, and downloading and running those clients is in violation of Blizzard's copyrights. I wonder if Blizzard got a customer list from Turtle WoW as a result of the settlement. At the least, they could permanently ban any WoW player who…

I don't really get this logic. Why would they want to permanently ban someone paying them money because they also played on TurtleWoW? Isn't the entire argument they're making that TurtleWoW could be hurting their own sales? And given that Blizzard doesn't still distribute their old clients anymore from what I understand, how would you prove that people running the old clients ever even saw the licensing agreement? People can't violate an agreement they never agreed to in the first place. You might be able to make a case for people distributing the client, but in this case that's probably just the same people who ran the server.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#227

Post by orphea »

sReinwald wrote: post #184
Xunjin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things that Blizzard does so bad and private servers try to solve, which is previous expansion content: Let's say you loved playing Battle for Azeroth. Later Blizzard launches Shadowlands, the content for BfA gets irrelevant, the raids are not doable anymore at the same difficult, the power creep feeds in. Even if you buy the expansion just to get the “feel” on how it was, it's impossible. MMOs like…

You clearly haven't played WoW in a decade, judging from this comment. > Even if you buy the expansion just to get the "feel" on how it was, it's impossible. You don't buy previous expansions after a new one launches - they roll into the base subscription. After Shadowlands released, buying BfA separately wasn't even an option. > MMOs like GW2 and even SWTOR do it way better “Keep every expansion fully relevant forev…

  Blizzard’s actual approach is much more sane: older content comes back in controlled ways.
Agreed. This is one of the things Blizzard actually nailed.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#228

Post by orphea »

mock-possum wrote: post #16
Someone1234 wrote: post #6

Just background in case you don't know: Turtle WoW tried to turn Classic World of Warcraft into a Roguelike, but in doing so wound up creating a bunch of new mechanics, and a gameplay loop that was quite unique even relative to other Roguelikes. So my position on this is; two things can be true at the same time: - Turtle WoW violated Blizzard's copyright, tried to charge money for some services, and Blizzard are well…

Blizzard should’ve offered the team making Turtle a job, and payed them to develop the next big WoW game. Unfortunately blizzard is not Valve.

I think Blizzard did offer some jobs to the devs behind Nostalrius to work on then-upcoming Classic?

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#229

Post by zetanor »

nrdvana wrote: post #109
jmyeet wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turtle WoW was also porting their fork to Unreal Engine 5 [1] but that got cancelled ~6 months ago due to a Blizzard lawsuit. For anyone unfamiliar with WoW, private servers have been a thing for most of WoW's history. It's unclear to me where the source code came from. I've heard different stories (eg from Chinese servers) and also that it was a greenfield development reverse-engineered from the client. All of this…

Implementing a WoW classic server is actually fairly easy. The game client comes with the entire engine, art, music, and quest content. The server is basically a fancy IRC server, taking client events and rebroadcasting them to other clients. Even many of the events are implied, like how regular attacks continue at a fixed frequency once started, so other clients only need to know when the player started attacking an…

Offline, the client knows movement, graphics, statics (the world mesh, excluding the location and functionality of npcs, doors, plants, etc.) and some localized text. Almost all the gameplay logic is server-side.

Re: Turtle WoW classic server announces shutdown after Blizzard wins injunction

#230

Post by adornKey »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #163
idiotsecant wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like every large public corporation inevitably turns into a rent seeking parasite. How do we build a system that has more calves and fewer blizzards? How do we incentivize that?

Stop buying/playing AAA games. Support indie devs, and indie publishers, with your money.

And don't forget open source games. Before going for the indies, I'd suggest downloading and winning all the available major open source roguelikes. And after that, start creating mods/patches for those. Once you're done with that - and not too old of age - maybe think about spending some money on games again.
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