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Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

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Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#221

If only I knew how to have full non-interrupted restorative sleep. It seems that my body started losing that skill about 20 years ago, and lost it altogether about 6 years ago. The falling asleep time is a lottery and I'm always waking up after the first stage, often a few more times after that. Tried all kinds of sleep medication, but by now I've forgotten what it's like to not be half-asleep and unable to concentra…

I've been struggling with early waking for a few months, and recently experienced improvements by meditating before bed. Have you ruled out sleep apnea?

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 for 3 sleeping through the night by 60 days. All we did was have a feeding schedule that we stuck to pretty closely, and around week 2 started intentionally delaying our response to night-time crying, gradually increasing how far we stretched it (start with maybe a minute, increase over time). They wake up at night and don’t know how to self-soothe back to sleep if you always jump in the second they make a sound, t…

Love to hear it, thanks for sharing. I only wish there were more parenting "tricks" like this that gave similar quality of life improvements.

There might be, but we didn't find many of them. Lots of things that work just how the parenting books et c. say they should on one of the three kids, and not at all on the other two.

This is one of the very-rare things that actually worked for all of them, almost exactly the same, all three times.

I'd say the only other things we did that worked 3-for-3 were making the kids walk on their own early and often, as much as feasible, and never having snacks (nor, very relatedly, tablets/phones) for them on-hand when out e.g. running errands—we just never introduced that as even a possibility. We didn't end up with kids still stroller/carrier-dependent past age ~2, and our kids have never had a meltdown[0] or complained about a lack of snacks (or digital toys) when we were out running errands. We reaped benefits by not needing to cart strollers and carriers around nearly as much, and never having to worry about snack-logistics or related mess (God knows we have plenty of other messes to worry about). IDK whether or how much those approaches benefited our kids, but they sure benefitted us.

[0, editing this in] To be clear, each went through period where they'd occasionally have public melt-downs, but never because we ran out of snacks or had the wrong snack or whatever, or because we wouldn't give them our phones to play with. I suspect short-circuiting these exact sorts of meltdowns is how the snacks-in-stores and sitting-in-the-cart-with-a-phone situations come to be (aside from some parents seeming to just think young kids need food available constantly or they might starve? These people baffle me, but do seem to actually exist) but our general rule we followed whenever possible was not to lean on a crutch that we didn't want to end up needing forever. That principle served us well, I think. Tens of embarrassing minutes we might have avoided, but that saved us a ton more hassle later.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've trained myself to have powers in the dream, but I rarely, fully know that it's a dream, so it doesn't really help when it's all psychological.

Can I just say that I agree with the other poster. I used to have a lot of nightmares. I didn't do it purposely, but I did figure out that lucid dreaming was the way to solve that issue. I got interested in lucid dreaming for its own sake, and trained myself for it. I did all the common stuff in the guides, and eventually I had a habit of many times a day rubbing the back of my hand or something else tactile and aski…

It's incredible when it finally clicks.

Arguably the best thing you can do is simply keep a dream journal (aside from deliberately waking up in the middle of the night and falling asleep with a clear intention - but that is more invasive in one's schedule and can also trigger nightmares).

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just say that I agree with the other poster. I used to have a lot of nightmares. I didn't do it purposely, but I did figure out that lucid dreaming was the way to solve that issue. I got interested in lucid dreaming for its own sake, and trained myself for it. I did all the common stuff in the guides, and eventually I had a habit of many times a day rubbing the back of my hand or something else tactile and aski…

It's incredible when it finally clicks. Arguably the best thing you can do is simply keep a dream journal (aside from deliberately waking up in the middle of the night and falling asleep with a clear intention - but that is more invasive in one's schedule and can also trigger nightmares).

You're right, I forgot to mention this. The dream journal was also a big part.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#225
post #167

I've never had sleep issues but lately I've been in a bit of a rut. I've always maintained a sleep schedule of going to bed around 00/01hs (not that uncommon in my country) and waking up around 8/9am. However lately I've been arriving VERY tired from work around 19hs. It's very easy to fall asleep right after work and some days I go to sleep for a few hours but then I wake up super late for dinner around 10/11pm and…

I have multiple severe sleep disorders including non-24 and insomnia so it is hard to tell how my experiences match most people but hopefully this might help some. My sense is that when I sleep only a few hours then can't get back to sleep for at least three hours it means my body is interpreting the sleep as a siesta rather than night sleep (unless it is after sunrise). Non-delayed release melatonin makes this more likely for me. I don't think delayed release makes it less likely (at least not right away) but might at least not make it more likely and longer term it seems to help make it possible for me to sleep on a closer to fixed schedule. Magnesium is one of the few that helps me stay asleep though I suspect what might help you most is if you could take a nap earlier in the day. While most people these days already do this part I've found that caffeine in the morning makes it much less likely that I'll have this issue (I can't have caffeine in the afternoon or too much theobromine even in the morning multiple days in a row or I will have trouble sleeping; I imagine the helpful effect will be much less in people who are desensitized).

It sounds like you have a delayed circadian rhythm. The Circadian Sleep Disorders Network has some good info:

https://www.circadiansleepdisorders.org/

I don't agree with many of the suggestions in this article. Advancing your sleep schedule to try to shift your sleep earlier is particularly harmful and can trigger non-24. In my case, part of my body seems to be synchronized with light and part rotates around the clock leaving me rarely all that functional. It is a disabling condition. A somewhat delayed circadian rhythm seems to usually be much less disabling but may also cause similar trouble if severely delayed (many people don't have as much trouble with non-24 as I do, though I didn't have as much trouble for the first 15ish years either).

Waking up at the same time every day is another thing that can help stabilize the circadian rhythm (though I also think it is best to avoid alarm clocks most of the time). Going to sleep at the same time is less important; it is better to go to sleep early if you need more sleep than to sleep in.

I think it is best to avoid medication if possible. What I am using now seems to be working the best of anything I've tried but it has only been six months. At night I take 300mcg 6-hour delayed release melatonin, 250mg delayed release magnesium (though I think non-delayed may work just as well), 2.5mg baclofen (the small amount keeps it working with daily use and using it with magnesium works better than either alone), and 8-9mg diphenhydramine (not enough to help me get to sleep but just for the circadian effect, either 1/3 of a 25mg pill or 3.5mL of 12.5mg/5mL liquid). In the morning I usually drink some tea and take .5 tsp (2.5mL) D-ribose which seems to help quite a bit (I had previously tried it without noticing a positive effect but I think I may have only used it later in the day). In the US there seem to be many companies that package D-ribose but only one company that makes it.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#226
post #73
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you so much for your detailed answer! I definitely try to show up, but I am an anxious person and sometimes trying to nap makes me even more anxious. However, it is true that even when I don't manage to sleep it helps relaxing me and giving me some extra energy. I've also read about NSDR and wanted to try it, so having some sources is really helpful. Do you always practice it with some guided meditation or can…

Practice makes perfect! Keep on showing up and it will most likely get easier :) I currently do not do guided NSDR that much, but it helped a lot at the time learning how to calm my thoughts and become deeply relaxed, especially the Ally guided sessions (as everything else, takes practice) so I would recommend to try the guided ones even if it feels awkward, until you learn how to stop your mind from wandering. I fin…

I'm trying to get into the NSDR and although I am not totally convinced, it is true that give some insights about calming down and it's easier that non-guided meditation. Thanks! I'll keep practicing.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#227
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in the same boat. Feels like mostly our society doesn't value having children - it's by and large not a very well supported activity. Even more so if you don't have immediate family to help support you.

Where’d you go? We were told Ireland values children but that didn’t match our experience (we moved to the Netherlands which has been better at least)

Not far ... just the other end of Ohio (SW Ohio from NE Ohio) ... But very much on our own

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#228
post #174

> Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock. If I did that I would go to bed a 5 in the morning and wake up at 2pm, sir.

Could be a symptom of poor stimulation regulation. I know that's the problem in my case. if I have a phone, screen, or even a book in front of me I can stay up until tomorrow. But, if I shut it all down (roughly 30 to 60 mins) before I actually plan to try and sleep it absolutely causes the tiredness to kick in. I will say there are varying degrees of stimulation. Computer use > TV > Book reading > Music > silence an…

Thanks. What you say makes sense

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment is more of a complaint than a discussion so apologies, but I was disappointed recently because I did at an at home test and scored borderline. I was hopeful that it would be sleep apnea so I could go about solving my bad sleep, but a lab test showed conclusively that I didn’t have it. I got checked out initially because I mentioned to my sister that I didn’t recall the last time I’d woken up and felt refre…

Chronic tiredness can be such a hard thing to figure out, sorry you've been going through that! Is it sleepiness (as in can fall asleep at any point of the day), or fatigue (as in non-restorative sleep, brain fog, feeling exhausted, etc)? I've had chronic fatigue (non syndrome) for six years now, so I'm pretty familiar with how obnoxiously long it takes to get answers. Some things to look into: Do a full polysomnogra…

Late reply, but yeah it’s fatigue. Thank you for the pointers, I’ll check all of those out with my GP.

I have diagnosed depression, but I wonder if it’s a chicken egg problem - am I depressed from bad sleep, or bad sleep from depression?

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life (2012)

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relatively late dining hours (9pm or later) in Spain wouldn't work for me at all. I'm an early-to-bed-early-to-rise kind of person and if I eat within 3 or 4 hours of bed time my sleep suffers.

I learned recently that Spain uses the same timezone as Germany (GMT+2 currently, according to Google) despite the GMT line passing through Spain. I've visited Spain and did feel like we ate late, but the timezone being "wrong" has made me wonder if it would have felt as late if I knew about their timezone while I was there!

I live in Switzerland and it's much easier to wake up early here than in northwestern Spain where I live before. The difference in real time can be like an hour and a half. Once you know it, it's true, you notice it more.
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