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The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

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Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#221

Post by hunterpayne »

fasterik wrote: post #170
nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the inevitable result of having a single-party government which is no longer accountable to regular citizens.

What you describe as "single-party government" is in fact a democracy where one party is more popular than the others. Or are you trying to imply that California's elections are not free and fair? If voters want to hold politicians accountable, they can vote out the incumbent. I see it as a problem primarily with education and public opinion. Regular citizens routinely support bad policies across the ideological spec…

You don't follow politics in CA very closely if you think that. The way it works in CA is that the party makes sure that only 1 candidate runs in the Dem primary. Then they gerrymander the districts to make sure that they know which party will win in which district. The result of this is that the party insiders choose the politicians, not the voters.

PS Nobody in their right mind thinks the Dems support civil liberties. You just wish that was true and/or live in a bubble.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#222

Post by Teever »

qurren wrote: post #56
MisterTea wrote: post #5

> The primary goal is clear and simple: to require 3D printer manufacturers to use a state-certified algorithm that checks digital design files for firearm components and blocks print jobs that would produce prohibited parts. "state-certified algorithm" has a really nice tyrannic ring to it. I am sure once this has passed the rich people can finally sleep at night knowing they are safe from roving gangs of armed Mang…

A 3D printer, at least of the Prusa variety, is really just a bunch of stepper motors and a dumb motor driver executing a series of effectively "rotate by X steps" commands, which is what the gcode file is. It doesn't know what it's printing. It doesn't even know that it's a printer. If they wanted a gate on designs it would have to happen in slicing software, not the actual printer.

They'll still need some DRM in the printer so it will only accept signed gcode that came from the the slicer.

Otherwise it's pretty trivial for someone to just bypass the slicer and hand write the gcode.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#223

Post by ancientorange »

michaelt wrote: post #118
15155 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> metal detectors are kind of the primary way we try to find guns on people What are bullets and shell casings made out of again?

In the movies, you hide the bullets in a pen or something, and it bypasses the metal detector along with the keys, phones and watches.

rabbits' foot, iIrc.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#225

Post by daveguy »

tehjoker wrote: post #213
Loudergood wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this damaging to them at all? They literally get to cut one item completely off their expense list.

I assumed that the grocers would want to offer bags. Making it more easy to drop in and buy something is going to be significantly more money than the cost of bags per a customer.

Maybe they want you to spend an extra 10 cents every time you drop in and buy something? And they get to be pro environment. Win win.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#226

Post by engineer_22 »

nickff wrote: post #101
favorited wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. Why would you buy a pipe at Home Depot? A gun barrel is not a firearm, and is not required to be registered or serialized. You can drive to Arizona or Nevada and buy an actual barrel, with rifling, manufactured to meet well-known specifications, without showing an ID.…

The device the parent is describing has a long history, and they're known as 'zip guns'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

Yes and the response is telling you that you can build something orders of magnitude more sophisticated without any trouble. The point is, the firearm is not the tube the projectile comes out of. Firearm is closely defined and not intuitive to the general public.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#227

Post by ancientorange »

Teever wrote: post #222
qurren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 3D printer, at least of the Prusa variety, is really just a bunch of stepper motors and a dumb motor driver executing a series of effectively "rotate by X steps" commands, which is what the gcode file is. It doesn't know what it's printing. It doesn't even know that it's a printer. If they wanted a gate on designs it would have to happen in slicing software, not the actual printer.

They'll still need some DRM in the printer so it will only accept signed gcode that came from the the slicer. Otherwise it's pretty trivial for someone to just bypass the slicer and hand write the gcode.

Unable to find the article quickly, but, I read a compelling perspective recently: DoD vendors seeking to restrict use of 3d printed replacement parts that they would normally supply. There was some speculative tie-in with the recent wave of consumer level regulation.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#228

Post by hrimfaxi »

MisterTea wrote: post #210
WillPostForFood wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is Everytown USA model legislation. They wrote it, and are lobbying for it. https://everytownsupportfund.org/press/new-everytown-report-...

Yes, third paragraph: "The shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson ..." who was killed by Mangione with a 3D printed gun. Did you forget who the killer was?

This is not the result of Mangione, Mangione is just their excuse for the push.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#229

Post by engineer_22 »

nine_k wrote: post #165
lq9AJ8yrfs wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNC milling is typically included in the bans being considered in various states. While poetically consistent, it enlarges the crater around these bad laws if they are passed and enforced. Basically all new manufacturing setups will need to stop and reprogram to stop and start according to fluctuating rules designed by committee, and will need to be made brittle to prevent circumvention. It is a debacle.

> need to stop and reprogram to stop and start according to fluctuating rules Or just move to Texas. Or even Idaho or Dakotas. Which, under a certain angle, is good, it would lessen the wealth and expertise disbalance between states. I still hope that California comes to senses before they would need to accept the moniker The Footgun State.

Machine shops like to be close to customers, moving might not be acceptable compromise.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#230

Post by hacker_homie »

horsawlarway wrote: post #38

Personally, I see this as an assault on 3d printing more than any real attempt to regulate guns. I own several 3d printers. If I wanted to make something resembling a firearm I'd go to home depot WAY before I bothered 3d printing parts. You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. So given we don't do this regulati…

I think the real issue is that 3d printing is a direct attack on products as a service (think roomba parts, fridge parts, anything with plastic clip assembly) that are planed to break and they don't sell replacement parts.

lots of companies got fat and happy selling you plastic crap for a fortune, now 3d printers let you make plastic crap at home for pennies.

If they must pass these laws, it must include protections for printing consumer goods parts, if they won't add that I will not vote for you.

contact your state reps and tell them that.

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