Help Keep Thunderbird Alive • Hacker News Board

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#221

Post by wsmwk » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:29 PM UTC

throw384949 wrote: post #172

smarnach wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not entirely separate from Mozilla. The MZLA Technologies Corporation is a for-profit subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. They have access to some of Mozilla's common infrastructure, but are otherwise entirely funded by donations. Donations to MZLA only fund Thunderbird and no other products.

Mozilla also runs hiring and HR for MZLA. They control who gets hired and fired. It is more like money laundering, than independent entity.

> Mozilla also runs hiring and HR for MZLA. They control who gets hired and fired.

This is completely and utterly false.

MZLA hiring posts are placed on the Mozilla hiring site, and nothing more.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#222

Post by hillcrestenigma » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:32 PM UTC

mhitza wrote: post #7

Wasn't Thunderbird Pro the avenue for extra project financing? Why does it take so long to launch an email service?

I think email is one of the few critical services that takes a lot of effort to get it right. I'd rather have them take a while to ensure it is reliable rather than have a buggy mess on launch day.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#223

Post by wsmwk » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:33 PM UTC

bpt3 wrote: post #70

upofadown wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are an entity separate from Mozilla: * https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/

They are a wholly owned subsidiary. They're separate from Firefox, not Mozilla.

To be more clear: * MZLA are a subsidiary of Mozilla FOUNDATION * MZLA are separate from Mozilla CORPORATION aka Firefox

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#224

Post by dangus » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:34 PM UTC

ano-ther wrote: post #32

As a lot of people in this thread advise against Thunderbird, what do you recommend instead (preferably for Windows as I am stuck on that)?

I still use Thunderbird but on my Linux system that I just set up I would like to try something else.

Some options appear in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/software/comments/17r3twi/best_wind...

If you’re doing a new install and are generally fine with Thunderbird, Betterbird is a good option. It has additional good stuff that Thunderbird is lacking or took longer to get implemented/fixed.

What I don’t like about Thunderbird is that the profiles aren’t portable. It seems like every Thunderbird install is its own unique mess. I’d love to find something that allowed me to move the same configuration around between computers and platforms. I’m not sure if that exists.

I like how Thunderbird has the ability to handle mail, calendar, and contacts, but the implementation especially for calendar leaves a lot to be desired.

My favorite clients are Apple Mail/Calendar for their simplicity and being local-first clients but I’m using macOS less and less these days.

The “new outlook” that’s offered by Microsoft to consumers for free seems to be creepy and syncs your emails to Microsoft servers even if you’re using a third party client.

I’d also say you only need a truly local client if you have multiple email addresses. If you have just one email, let’s say you’re with FastMail or something, their web mail and mobile/desktop apps are great.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#225

Post by jeltz » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:34 PM UTC

foofloobar wrote: post #86

How much money goes into the pocket of the Mozilla CEO? How much is used to actually pay the people and to cover infrastructure costs?

Probably nothing. It is the Firefox revenue that pays her unreasonable salary.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#226

Post by pavon » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:35 PM UTC

swiftcoder wrote: post #9

> MZLA Technologies Corporation is a wholly owned for-profit subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation and the home of Thunderbird. I guess I don't understand why the open-source email client with zero revenue potential is managed by a for-profit subsidiary, nor why that for-profit subsidiary is begging for donations. Shouldn't this whole thing be managed by the non-profit Mozilla Foundation?

Basically the IRS is highly skeptical of the idea that free software development fits the legal definition of a 501(c)(3), and tends to reject such applications [1][2]. That is why Mozilla Foundation cannot use donations for Firefox development, and instead uses them for activism.

So that creates the strange situation where legally it is easier for free software developers to accept donations as a for-profit corporation than as a 501(c)(3) non-profit. It is possible to instead incorporate as a not-for-profit corporation which doesn't have the tax advantages of a 501(c)(3), but does have the advantage of not being beholden to share holders. However, many people react negatively to this assuming that any not-for-profit that isn't a 501(c)(3) is a scam.

[1] https://www.stradley.com/business-vantage-point-blog/irs-con...

[2] https://www.mill.law/blog/more-501c3-rejections-open-source-...

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#227

Post by dangus » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:35 PM UTC

PunchyHamster wrote: post #105

mrks_hy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are just hating on Mozilla out of pure principles, but without any alternative.

Thunderbird of now is more annoying and less convenient to use than when I last time used it in 2010's, before I moved to claws-mail. And only reason using it now is cos of MS fucked up oauth2 method that is PITA to setup for any other OSS client as it requires the app to be added to their catalog and only thunderbird was big enough to get that So I can understand the annoyance

To be honest while I’m not the biggest fan of Thunderbird I struggle to understand how this is true by any measure.

The program is pretty much the same as it was in 2010 from a UI standpoint.

My biggest complaints with it are that the profile configuration is not portable, and that the UI is too cluttered with features. I just want something simple that does all the important stuff and remains somewhat powerful.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#228

Post by jeltz » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:36 PM UTC

hk__2 wrote: post #53

mrks_hy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are just hating on Mozilla out of pure principles, but without any alternative.

> I think they are just hating on Mozilla out of pure principles Please don’t assume bad faith when the reality is that you don’t know.

Please provide an alternative then.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#229

Post by encom » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:37 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #151

encom wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You say you don't care about these identities, yet you’re willing to let a tool you (presumably) value lose funding over a text block you find 'verbose.' It seems you care enough about the signposting to let it outweigh the software's actual utility.

Yes, you just restated my argument.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#230

Post by jeltz » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 3:37 PM UTC

ano-ther wrote: post #32

As a lot of people in this thread advise against Thunderbird, what do you recommend instead (preferably for Windows as I am stuck on that)?

As far as I know there isn't one. Maybe Evolution if they have managed to fix all the bugs it used to have. it is a sad state of affairs that we have so few useful email clients.