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In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

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Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#221

Post by stevenwoo »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #211
stevenwoo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For manual labor I thought the guys I know who do garbage pickup have a great job - their hours are shifted so they work from 4am to noon so they have plenty of time for hobbies and family outside of that. All the time sitting and driving the truck is hard though they rarely have to handle anything manually with standardized bins and hydraulic lifts.

How goes 4-12 give any more time for hobbies than 8-4 or 10-6?

Daylight hours even in winter for outdoor things, we would ride bicycles together but they also played golf and rode off road motorcycles, it’s possible to do these activities at night in some fashion but during day on weekdays is less crowded and more accessible, most parks/trails are closed in the dark for cycling/running/hiking. Working non normal hours like this also opens up activities with whole family in afternoon after kids are picked up from school instead of getting home after normal commute times in evening. Should have written "outdoor" hobbies.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#222

Post by Hikikomori »

chaostheory wrote: post #8
maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

"No one wants" usually includes an insufficient wage, sometimes also an issue of insufficient investment in training for skilled folks. eg if you need a doctor in 12 years you have to start more or less today. A quick google suggests ~18% of their working age people do not have jobs, which naturally could be shifted by incentives like money or training. (Edit, because people are confused, I'm not talking about unempl…

1. There is only so much you can pay the people doing the kind of work like cleaning the Shinkansens or manning the 7-11's because it affects customer costs. i.e. There's a point where you increase the salary of 7-11 workers that it causes a $2 fried chicken snack to inflate to $10 that customers will refuse to buy 2. Even if there was magically enough money and time to retrain people, they would still be short of wo…

We manage it in Sweden, even with þ weeks of vacation. Regular people including workers can still eat there.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#223

Post by functional_dev »

Simulacra wrote: post #4

The article seems to say that it's not jobs nobody wants, but rather a labor shortage from an aging population. Japan just seems to be running out of people for its labor market.

100%

There is genuine demand for physical AI in Japan, there are not enough humans to hire.

I bet, EU will start long debates wether to automate or not :) Japan already skipped that part

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#225

Post by alephnerd »

gkanai wrote: post #190
alephnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan doesn't have UBI, but it's welfare system is extremely expansive as Article 25 of the Constitution guarantees a minimum standard of living through livelihood, housing, education, and medical assistance. Additonally, Japan has spent decades thinking about this eventuality (at least since the 1970s), which is why Japan worked on the "Flying Geese" paradigm where Japanese public-private ventures would end up becom…

> "Flying Geese" paradigm Can you name any one of these that are successful or prominent? I am not aware of this paradigm.

Taiwan (1960s onwards), South Korea (1970s onwards), and China (1980s onwards), and investments by what are now Master Trust Bank, Trust & Custody Services Bank, JTSB, and SoftBank.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#226

Post by Lerc »

andsoitis wrote: post #146
Lerc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are older than money, so evidently we don't need it to survive, but there is more to existence than mere survival. I agree that people's basic needs to be taken care of, but I think that is an issue that needs to happen because of automation. It needs to happen because it is simply the right thing to do. I would go as fas as saying It shouldn't just be basic needs. Society should be aiming to provide the entir…

> Society should be aiming to provide the entire hierarchy of needs for everyone. I don’t know. Society should provide the framework within which people can achieve their needs (and wants), but not the needs and wants themselves directly. Otherwise you put an artificial cap on human growth and inefficient allocation of resources.

>Otherwise you put an artificial cap on human growth and inefficient allocation of resources.

That is not how the hierarchy of needs works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Removing the cap on growth is pretty much baked in.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#227

Post by panda-giddiness »

klausa wrote: post #213
panda-giddiness wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as if Japan (or any other country, for that matter) doesn't already have immigration restrictions. Japan uses a points-based merit system for permanent residence [1], not unlike the criteria you suggested. Just to give an example, having a PhD and speaking Japanese at an N1 level (~equivalent to B2 CEFR) is barely sufficient to qualify (unless you're older than 30, in which case it won't be). The more intere…

This is misleading at best, straight up false at worst. The points-based system is used to allow you to apply for a PR _on an accelerated timeline_; not apply at all. Having 70/80 points lets you apply for a PR after being a resident for 1/3 years respectively; you can apply without any points after living here for 10 years.

Fair enough, I should have mentioned that the points-based system is for an accelerated application. The fact was on my mind as I was writing but I see that I forgot to mention it. My bad.

But I will point out that ten years is a major commitment. Surely if someone can hold a job for ten years the default assumption should be that they're contributing to society, not leeching off it.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#228

Post by ecshafer »

areoform wrote: post #55
eucryphia wrote: post #15

The job no one wants? Grunting out 2.6 babies before you’re 35. Who’s paying for your nursing home? Tax the robot’s income? Will your demographic replacements vote for that?

> Grunting out 2.6 babies before you’re 35. * destroying your body, stripping your bones, getting diabetes and temporarily (or permanently) disabling yourself with issues no healthcare provider will take seriously for decades to come for 2.6 babies in your youth. ––– Someone called this a "belief." There's a 10% to 4% probability that the average teenage girl will die from childbirth, given the cumulative risk of pre…

Pregnancy and birth is a miracle. And the death rate is extremely low in the developed world.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#229

Post by encody »

bryanhogan wrote: post #200
canpan wrote: post #28

I went to a chain Family Restaurant recently here in Japan. The food is brought by a robot for a while now. Recently you get your seat selected at a touchscreen. You can pay at your table's tablet using PayPay. There is still some waiter staff, but it being reduced to the past. The only part that did not change much yet is the kitchen. I said to myself to stop going, if there is no human staff left. On the other hand…

You are probably talking about Cafe Restaurant Gusto (ガスト). A robot bringing me the food improves my experience as I don't have to wait as long, and I can leave whenever I want, just get up and pay, it's more efficient and provides a better experience.

Gusto, Saizeriya, Jonathan's... Lots of them are at least partly robot-staffed these days. It is a bit inconvenient for me to have to remove the plates from the robot, which usually stops at an awkward location relative to my seat, but that's really nitpicking on my part. Also, they play music and talk, which can get annoyingly loud at times.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#230

Post by spike021 »

encody wrote: post #229
bryanhogan wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably talking about Cafe Restaurant Gusto (ガスト). A robot bringing me the food improves my experience as I don't have to wait as long, and I can leave whenever I want, just get up and pay, it's more efficient and provides a better experience.

Gusto, Saizeriya, Jonathan's... Lots of them are at least partly robot-staffed these days. It is a bit inconvenient for me to have to remove the plates from the robot, which usually stops at an awkward location relative to my seat, but that's really nitpicking on my part. Also, they play music and talk, which can get annoyingly loud at times.

a lot of the yakiniku chains i've been to are also staffed at least in part by robots bringing the next set of plates.
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