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My Google Workspace account suspension

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Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a good alternative to Google Workspace for SMB customers?

Microsoft 365 is a reasonable alternative. It's easy to buy and even tiny Customers can get a degree of real human (read: tier 1 is unhelpful contractors that you have to fight thru) support. It's still repugnant to me, as compared to self-hosting, but I would never self-host for a greenfield SMB Customer today. The economics don't make sense and the talent pool of knowledgeable and reasonable sysadmins is dwindling…

It's not. Support is about on par with Google for SMBs. I had a client get locked out of the admin panel for about 2 weeks before getting through with support.

The difference is that everyone's account kept working during that time so business kept on as usual, just the admins couldn't change anything.

The sad thing is I don't think anyone did anything unusual and it was some kind of bug of Microsoft's end.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been [0] days since the "business I contract with to provide services locked me out of the building we rent, ghosted me, and threw all my shit out" article. We really need to just fix the laws.

> We really need to just fix the laws. This. There are something like 150 million Americans with a Google account, and these days it is more important than a phone number to have a working email. Email is a utility. Email companies should be heavily regulated and controlled like phone or other utility companies.

Americans need a government issued digital signing token to prove their identity digitally. There are a lot of services demanding ID verification these days and use a 3rd party to process driver's licenses and faces. It's super inefficient, full of friction, and probably unregulated (dodgy).

Someone claiming to work for the US Digital Services replied to me here years ago that this was being worked on in relation to the easily compromised SSN but I'd say all bets are off on a consumer friendly government service like that now.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#223
post #128
post #80

If a service offers "Login with Google/Apple/Facebook/etc" you should never do that if they offer a username/password. It just increases the single point of failure. Avoid places that only offer the "Login with Foo" if at all possible (looking at you Tailscale). As an ex-googler, the only reason I was comfortable keeping even my personal email there was because I could reach out internally if there was a problem. I l…

One of the other articles on HN's front page right now, is that Germany's implementation of eIDAS will require a Google or Apple account.

For those like who who've never heard of eIDAS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#224
post #82
post #80

If a service offers "Login with Google/Apple/Facebook/etc" you should never do that if they offer a username/password. It just increases the single point of failure. Avoid places that only offer the "Login with Foo" if at all possible (looking at you Tailscale). As an ex-googler, the only reason I was comfortable keeping even my personal email there was because I could reach out internally if there was a problem. I l…

> Avoid places that only offer the "Login with Foo" if at all possible (looking at you Tailscale). Tailscale is the only serious company that I can ever recall offering /only/ third party login. It's bit bizarre on the face of it. Anyone know the reason?

Spotify did this for years in the beginning too. I remember this was the reason I didn’t use them until they proposed email logins.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#225
This story is the typical "got banned, complained on HN, only then did Google see fit to actually help me" however I'm surprised that before this was posted he WAS able to actually talk to someone from Google on the phone.

I legitimately thought that was impossible, so, uh, baby steps?

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but I wanted to call out that they've always been just as evil as other big tech companies. I think their motto of "don't be evil" was some pretty clever PR. I started questioning it c. 2008 when they ghosted me on resolving an issue with my blogspot site that was a bug in the platform. All I could get was a condescending non-response from a "diamond" volunteer on a forum. They were appar…

Disagree. Even with their issues, they're still less evil than MS, Apple and especially Oracle or Meta. If they didn't have all their issues (discontinuing products, bad customer service) they'd probably be bigger than MS and Apple combined. But here we are. Also for better or worse, I pay for bundled Google storage + Gemini and YouTube separately, it's still worth it, even without free months or whatever. And still…

The least evil giant might be Yahoo!, although nowadays no one uses their service due to their inability product and tech.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#227
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. And every time I see a new "cloud provider banned me and I lost everything" article (i.e: every few days), I always just want to ask the same question(s): "I'm sure it's very sad that you've lost all your [email|calendar|photos|whatever]... but, were you, a person who has chosen to rely on a service provided by a cloud provider with a track record which goes back well over 15 years of locking people out of thei…

Come now, are those really the rhetorical questions you'd fling at your Aunt Tillie panicking on the phone, because she can't email anybody or renew her important drug prescriptions or whatever? Most people expect better because in most other walks of life it is better with some kind of plausible appeal route, and the deficiencies we're discussing don't really get publicized. These service-outcomes are the outliers i…

  > are those *really* the rhetorical questions you'd fling at your Aunt Tillie panicking on the phone, because she can't email anybody or renew her important drug
No - I'd be much less sympathetic to my aunt, because if she's panicking on the phone about not being able to email anyone, that means she's a) ignored my advice and rants for 20+ years and then b) had the gall to call me up to try to have me fix the problem that she created by ignoring me for 20+ years.

But I'm not actually really talking about regular people losing their personal email where they happen to keep a few sort-of important things that are relatively-easily replaced/transferred into a safer system. Those people I can sort-of understand, and don't really need to ask my questions - the answer is simple: "I never thought about it until now".

But aunt Tillie doesn't call herself an "entrepreneur" and doesn't rely on the existence of her gmail account for the survival of a business, and she especially doesn't have a blog where she whinges about the fact she did that.

I'm talking about people who should know better, who should be smart and considering things like "what are the existential threats to this business I'm trying to run?", who use gmail for vital business functions like payroll, and who tie their auth for everything else to their google (or whatever other shitty cloud service) accounts.

  > the deficiencies we're discussing don't really get publicized
Yeah I'm afraid I'm going to have to challenge this assertion - I've seen variations on this article about ten thousand times. The post I was replying to was pointing out that they've also seen this article about ten thousand times. The vast majority of people that I have mentioned this problem to (and I do that a lot!) have responded with "oh, yeah, I've heard about that happening to people".

And another thing: my questions are not rhetorical. I am genuinely curious about the thought process that leads to these decisions. See, I didn't actually have to see this article even once - what I did was I gave it about 10 seconds thought, and came to the conclusion that relying on unaccountable third parties for mission-critical business infrastructure is an existential risk. This all seems very obvious and straightforward to me. Perhaps I'm some kind of super genius? I'm doubtful about that.

  > These service-outcomes are the outliers in need of repair, not the consumers.
It's both. I agree that there should be some recourse. Show me a thing I can sign to bring in a law requiring all companies to post a phone number where a user can speak to a human and I'll sign it and have everybody I know sign it too.

But if you're not giving any thought to who controls your vital data and you lose it as a result of that, that's at least 50% your fault.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#228

Google needs to understand that watching this nightmare scenario play out over and over again is actively destroying trust in their platform. When your email, authentication, documents, payroll, and CRM all flow through a single provider and that provider can lock you out overnight with no meaningful recourse, you’ve invited customers to place their entire digital presence into a house of cards. The fact that this sa…

[dead]

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft 365 is a reasonable alternative. It's easy to buy and even tiny Customers can get a degree of real human (read: tier 1 is unhelpful contractors that you have to fight thru) support. It's still repugnant to me, as compared to self-hosting, but I would never self-host for a greenfield SMB Customer today. The economics don't make sense and the talent pool of knowledgeable and reasonable sysadmins is dwindling…

It's not . Support is about on par with Google for SMBs. I had a client get locked out of the admin panel for about 2 weeks before getting through with support. The difference is that everyone's account kept working during that time so business kept on as usual, just the admins couldn't change anything. The sad thing is I don't think anyone did anything unusual and it was some kind of bug of Microsoft's end.

Good to know. I'm only dealing with 7 M365 tenants regularly and we have "break glass" accounts in each one (not tied to Customer's SSO, MFA unrelated to other admins, email address outside the tenant) to try to minimize the possibility of getting locked out, but I know it's always a possibility.

Moving the MX for the domain and limping along from backups is my worst-case contingency but given that there's no place other than M365 to restore the backups to it isn't a very good strategy.

Re: My Google Workspace account suspension

#230
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Avoid places that only offer the "Login with Foo" if at all possible (looking at you Tailscale). Tailscale is the only serious company that I can ever recall offering /only/ third party login. It's bit bizarre on the face of it. Anyone know the reason?

My other annoyance lately is companies that don't let you set a password. It's either passkey only (which I'm not sold on, yet), or "we'll email you a login link". Great, now I have to wait for the email to show up, click the link, hope it doesn't expire if I get distracted while waiting, and then also delete your emails, sometimes multiple times a day? What a shit tier authentication mechanism.

"Login via email code" is also a nightmare on Android. Android regularly kills any processes that are not in the foreground, so I recently went through a whole ordeal trying to login to the MLB app: it requires me to type in an email code, I switch to my email client, get the code, go back to the MLB app, and the page reloads (because it was killed in the background) requiring me to request a NEW email code. I tried this literally five times, going as fast as I could; it seems like it was just deciding to kill the browser process as soon as I switched to the email client, no matter what. This is mostly Android's fault but it's insane and I don't get why I don't hear people complain about this more often
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