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EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

blog.cloudflare.com

221–230 of 558 posts

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#221
As a (unfortunately) wordpress dev this seems to solve my single biggest painpoint with WP. Which isn't plugin security, but the overall plugin architecture.

WP treats plugins as content, literally in the same top level `wp-content` directory as uploaded images. This makes CI/CD among other things, a nightmare. But EmDash plugins are just TS modules, which has got to make things easier even if plugin configuration does end up in the db somewhere.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#222

A WordPress spiritual successor backed by Cloudflare sounds great in theory, but the headline feature, plugin isolation via Dynamic Workers, only works on Cloudflare's runtime. On any other host it's just a TypeScript CMS without the security model that justifies its existence. Open source but architecturally locked in.

> Open source but architecturally locked in. You hit the nail on the head. Cloudflare's new business model is to find popular OSS projects, create a vibe coded alternative that only runs on Cloudflare's infrastructure.

I think pretty much every corporation that can have had this thought, has had it. Really "any popular software" where they can provide similar functionality. And I think this is going to happen more often before it becomes less common.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#223
post #43
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes definitely compare it multiple times to WordPress and nobody will think of calling their lawyers. It's not illegal to make product comparisons. That's just competition.

Tell that to the guy who got upset with WP Engine. EmDash is clearly "inspired" by WordPress including in its UI, so there's definitely something to it.

Matt got upset because they forked his open source project and built a hundred million dollar revenue business on top of it without contributing anything back to WordPress.

He'd have more of a leg to stand on if WordPress wasn't itself a fork of an open source project.

Matt should have built something open core or fair source licensed - free for customers, but stops competitors from stealing your lunch. He has no legal ground to argue his case now.

It's a much bigger deal with hyperscalers poaching and stealing, like AWS and GCP ripping off and stealing most of the revenue from Redis and Elasticsearch. That's dishonest and evil in my mind.

Totally orthogonal to this issue of marketing comparisons.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What are some other candidates in the "most meaningless new term" awards category? "Vibe coding" seems like the best in a generation. Even with a lot of clarifying qualifications, it often still seems fundamentally meaningless / open to interpretation / triggers commenters based on their priors.

Using the word priors in the way you (and others) do.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#225

Convince me this isn’t vibeslop. If Cloudflare really have radically changed their software development philosophy lately, this would actually be an interesting project, being based on Astro and coming with some APIs for programmatic management. Them being so happy about the „cost of software development“ and not going very deep into ecosystem, community or project management doesn’t convince me that this is going to…

It is 100% vibe coded.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#226
post #208

I think wordpress, woo commerce and elementor are in a Mexican standoff. Wordpress cant fork or change in a major way because the other two are so popular no one would use the new variant. woo commercere and elementor can't just walk away and make their own wordpress-less platform because they rely on each other and the other constellation of plugins that run on wordpress.

WooCommerce is owned by the same company as Wordpress. Elementor is just one page builder of many in the vast ecosystem you mention, but much of that ecosystem can be ported. As replacing the core CMS goes, Emdash might be able to conquer, but time will tell as to whether it's able to rule.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#227

I don't think it's the code that makes WordPress valuable. I've been learning WordPress recently and haven't been too impressed with the internals. WordPress is valuable because of the ecosystem and support. I have no doubt that WordPress will still be a thing in ten years. What's the support plan for EmDash? I see commits are mostly from a single developer. E: Oh, I think it's an April fools joke, I'm embarrassed. E…

Oh, come on. It must be a joke. They can't be serious with this sloppy thing.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#228

I don't like that they see the main selling point that the license, is not GPL, and that plugins don't have to license it that way either. I understand that not all developers are comfortable with the GPL license, but it allows to the code continue to be open source and that most plugins are open source also

A big issue with WordPress is the GPL. There hasn't been much clarity about it and the interpretations I've heard from Automattic in regard to which code is and is not covered by the GPL come from Automattic, not from the GPL. https://redsweater.com/blog/825/getting-pretty-lonely

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean to be fair, if you are using agents more than likely you are not thinking about aspects of the code as deeply as you would have before. If you write things yourself you spend far more time thinking about every little decision that you're making. Even for tests, I always thought the real valuable part of it was that it forced you to think about all the different cases, and that just having bunch of green checkb…

There's definitely a trade-off, but it's a lopsided one that favors AI. Before AI, you were often encumbered with the superficial aspects of a plan or implementation. So much that we often would start implementing first and then kinda feel it out as we go, saving advanced considerations and edge-cases for the future since we're not even sure what the impl will be. That's useful for getting a visceral read on how a so…

I think I agree. Fast iteration in many cases > long thought out ideas going the wrong direction. The issue is purely a mentality one where AI makes it really easy to push features fast without spending as much time thinking through them.

That said, iteration is much more difficult on established codebases, especially with production workflows where you need to be more than extra careful your migration is backwards compatible, doesn't mess up feature x,y,z,d across 5 different projects relying on some field or logical property.

Re: EmDash – A spiritual successor to WordPress that solves plugin security

#230
post #132

"solve security" - that's an April Fools joke if I ever heard one.

Given how shitty it looks and behaves, I was 100% sure this was an April Fools. But after reading the serious comments here on HN, I'm not sure anymore...
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