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The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

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Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#221

Post by dylan604 »

nextaccountic wrote: post #219
wongarsu wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they are technically not middle men because they sit one the start of the value chain, but the company making the t-shirts, the one selling it and the one printing on it are still making good profits. On top of the actual costs of making those printed t-shirts. I imagine it's not hugely expensive at the volumes bands need, somewhere from $3-10 per t-shirt depending on quality, and maybe double that for hoodie…

the t-shirt itself benefits the band because it's free advertising, it keeps the band on the radarof your friends etc. even if you wanted to paypal them, they would probably prefer you to buy (and wear!) t-shirts

For your generous PayPal donation, please accept our gift of a free t-shirt as a way of saying thank you.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#222

Post by butlike »

matthewkayin wrote: post #131
ageitgey wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very smart of them to recognize that. The world is full of these weird business cases where people aren't aware of the actual product, like how Starbucks US morphed from a coffee shop into an iced dessert drinks company that also incidentally sells hot coffee. Edit: Other fun examples - In the mid-2000s, Porsche was an incredibly successful hedge fund that also sold cars who tried to acquire VW using a short squ…

I don't know if the Starbucks example is quite the same as the band example. If anything, their focus on iced desserts shows that they know exactly what their audience wants and is paying for. When I think about the band shirts, I think about this time an indie game dev youtuber did a full breakdown of their different revenue streams. They were a "full time indie gamedev", but the overwhelming majority of their incom…

That's implying your identity is what makes you money. It doesn't have to be.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#223

Post by genericone »

dylan604 wrote: post #221
nextaccountic wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the t-shirt itself benefits the band because it's free advertising, it keeps the band on the radarof your friends etc. even if you wanted to paypal them, they would probably prefer you to buy (and wear!) t-shirts

For your generous PayPal donation, please accept our gift of a free t-shirt as a way of saying thank you.

And to all a good tax-writeoff.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#224

Post by aussiegreenie »

I have a 16-year-old daughter, but when she was in Day Care, one of the Chinese kids wore a Ramones t-shirt. I was so surprised that I asked the parents if they had ever heard of the Ramones. They had no idea what I was talking about.

In Australia, Kmart (Kmart is very popular here) sells lots of retro rock t-shirts. Often from tours that occurred in the 1970s eg Elon John 1974 tour or Led Zeppelin etc.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#225

Post by mr_toad »

card_zero wrote: post #40
mosessupposed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in the idea that if you really do the hell out of something, you can make up for a lot of shortcomings. Quantity and spirit can substitute for quality in almost all artistic pursuits. Here's Bill Withers on selling out: “Sellout… I’m not crazy about the word. We’re all entrepreneurs. To me, I don’t care if you own a furniture store or whatever – the best sign you can put up is SOLD OUT.”

Sell meant "give" in Old English, including the sense of "give up", "surrender", "betray". (Their word for sell was equivalent to *be-buy.) https://www.etymonline.com/word/sell Etymonline says the meaning "betray for gain" is from 1200. So this is probably where "sellout" comes from. Compare with "he sold us out". There's an entry for sellout too: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=sellout "corrupt bargain".

Maybe. There’s another meaning for sellout - an event that is all sold out.

That makes me wonder if the meaning of a sellout artist was an analogy to an event which became commercially popular, and was (literally) no longer accessible to long-term fans.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#226

Post by mr_toad »

mtts wrote: post #29
deeg wrote: post #7

If the Ramones put their name on all sorts of merchandise does that make them sellouts? I joke, of course, and I'm a big Ramones fan. I've had numerous iterations of that shirt over the years. I often use them as an example when discussing "what is good art?" They are one of the most influential bands of all time and yet they were terrible musicians.

> they were terrible musicians Not only are the songs they wrote really good and catchy, Ramones are one of those bands where it sounds so easy anyone can do it but if you give it a try, you quickly find out it’s difficult to get the nuances right and your results, unlike theirs, sound crude and obviously amateurish. They’re like AC/DC in that respect. Or Melvins.

Reminds me of a story about Giotto di Bondone, an artist who when called upon to prove his talent drew, freehand, a perfect circle. Something which seems simple, but which is actually very difficult.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#227

Post by musicale »

chii wrote: post #15
musicale wrote: post #12

They're played every day on the radio, on streaming services, etc. Billions of listens vs. thousands (?) of shirts.

> Billions of listens vs. thousands (?) of shirts. how much of the revenue derived from those listens turn into commission to the musicians? Those t-shirt sales came about because of those listens, so even tho the music wasn't as revenue generating, it acts as the biggest funnel.

> commission to the musicians

To the original Ramones you say? Might be hard to deliver.

But how much of traditional broadcast radio license fees accrue to musicians? Zero, unless they happen to be the songwriters (but good news for Max Martin et al.) Record companies also got no royalties from radio airplay (in fact they got in trouble for paying radio stations to play their music.)

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#228

Post by roncesvalles »

hdhdhebbbwhwuuw wrote: post #19

Shawn Stussy printed shirts to promote his surfboards and ended up being the originator of “streetwear”

All "skateboard" brands are arguably t-shirt brands that also sell boards on the side for the street cred.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#229

Post by roncesvalles »

gizajob wrote: post #115

Has anyone ever read, or even seen, THRASHER skateboard magazine?

Thrasher merch is now widely regarded as an anti-brand in the skateboarding community. Only poseurs (the term of art for people who dress like skateboarders but don't actually skateboard) wear it.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#230

Post by [deleted] »

donkeybeer wrote: post #53
pfannkuchen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But have you tried recording your version and also playing it in public and promoting it for decades? It’s possible that’s what is making the one thing sound like it has something hard to name, and the other one not. Like if you are sloppy there is an element of randomness in the output, and any particular randomness will be difficult to replicate.

Punk is not easy, they were developing new techniques and song writing approaches. Otherwise you tell me why we talk of Ramones as being different from older rock like say Led Zeppelin. I will say by the time we get to bands like Minor Threat we have genuinely new song structural paradigms that never existed in rock music. And to say nothing of course of the mechanical finesse and stamina required to play this kind o…

[deleted]
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