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Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

cnbc.com

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Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#221

Post by Frieren »

bigyabai wrote: post #201
bengale wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideological is the best way to describe the reaction by most people on here I think, counterproductive is another one. The reality is most normal people want children protected, unless we can come to the table with good options we are going to end up with a terrible one thrust upon us. Slippery slope arguments and things like it are not going to convince people, "just parent your kids" is not going to convince people…

> there will need to be trust at some point in the system This is why you don't have a technologically effective solution, here. "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance, just like the pinkie promise that Client Side Scanning would never be abused by the government. Trust would not stop child abuse, or meaningfully prevent access to online pornography. Trust is not a technical solution, it's a poli…

> "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance

Is all security a weasel word for surveillance? You answer a valid argument with a meme. It is very unproductive.

How do you suggest to disallow children access to pornography, harmful content, etc? Or are you arguing that any solution is worse than the harm that bad actors in search of money and political gain are doing to children?

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#222

Post by curt15 »

petcat wrote: post #103
Scapeghost wrote: post #62

Man... How did yall white Westerners turn out to be the weakest people in the world? You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and acc…

> Now your countries are little different from Russia or China or Dubai The fact that many independent national newspapers (including this article from CNBC) are openly calling-out the surveillance state and entering the debate into the public conscience should tell everyone that USA (and the West) is very different from Russia or China or Dubai. USA is not perfect, but at least is has active public discourse. We can…

>The fact that many independent national newspapers (including this article from CNBC) are openly calling-out the surveillance state and entering the debate into the public conscience should tell everyone that USA (and the West) is very different from Russia or China or Dubai.

For how much longer will they stay independent? Media empires love to consolidate; most of the largest video services will soon be owned by a fan of govt surveillance.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#223

Post by a456463 »

rationalist wrote: post #59
rnxrx wrote: post #45

This is probably fantastic news for the VPN providers. Lots of people who otherwise wouldn't have bothered are now likely incorporating VPN connectivity into their daily routine. This very obviously includes kids. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of people only dimly aware of the idea of a VPN who are now sitting up and taking note.

And kids will do very stupid things to get "free" VPN access. Such as following directions from a YouTube video that instructs them to do sketchy things.

And old people will do stupid things as downloading APKs as well. But in both cases, the smart people and the careful people have to pay the cost of supporting the in-experienced whether via constant surveillance or via no more accessing apps to your own computer or phone

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#224

Post by caconym_ »

peyton wrote: post #209
caconym_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if there's nothing special or unspecial about any of these populations. Just transient cultural factors that (in addition to generally being understood in limited hindsight and through rose-tinted glasses) will inevitably erode and dissolve under sustained attack. > lay down and crawl along and accept everything without even a whimper. People just want to live their lives. Maybe you think you would be…

Let’s not get carried away. Real people fought and died for things we have.

Yes, and they did so because of their specific circumstances and beliefs.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#226

Post by a456463 »

Aurornis wrote: post #5

> Social media company Discord announced plans in February to roll out mandatory age verification globally, Discord’s age verification is optional and only required to disable the image content filter, join adult servers, and a couple other features. I’m not saying it’s a good decision, but I am getting tired of the repeated claim that it’s mandatory to go do age verification to use the service. This lazy reporting i…

You are totally downplaying it in an effort to not see what others are talking about.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#227

Post by bengale »

bigyabai wrote: post #201
bengale wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideological is the best way to describe the reaction by most people on here I think, counterproductive is another one. The reality is most normal people want children protected, unless we can come to the table with good options we are going to end up with a terrible one thrust upon us. Slippery slope arguments and things like it are not going to convince people, "just parent your kids" is not going to convince people…

> there will need to be trust at some point in the system This is why you don't have a technologically effective solution, here. "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance, just like the pinkie promise that Client Side Scanning would never be abused by the government. Trust would not stop child abuse, or meaningfully prevent access to online pornography. Trust is not a technical solution, it's a poli…

This is what I'm getting at, this is an ideological position. You are of course welcome to hold it, but you will have a way worse solution forced on you by normal people who will not go along with this binary view of the world. The default position will be that kids come first.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#228

Post by crooked-v »

a456463 wrote: post #219
hamburglar wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I miss a memo on Linux somehow requiring age verification now? How would that even work?

Laws and lawmakers just concern themselves with making broad "laws" with little regard to specificity and applicability. California, Colorado and Illinois mandate OS "providers" to generate a signal. It is a copy pasted bill with little grounding in reality but a lawmaker is not going to say no "protecting children". Pushed by AVPA - a group of companies standing to profit from this: LexisNexis, some Thiel corp, etc.

California's law explicitly requires the system and apps to take the user's word for it and not use other information to determine age, which more and more feels to me like kind of a brilliant move to cut the legs out from under other attempts to use the same for surveillance while still satisfying all the surface-level "protect children" sound bites.

Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults

#229

Post by dheera »

disposition2 wrote: post #163
dheera wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Every time I point out that I shouldn't have to leak my residential address to private businesses to register to vote or complete KYC, 15 people immediately come out of the woods to point out that addresses are public information. The point is they shouldn't be. That's how people get stalked, harassed, and murdered at their home.

> shouldn't have to leak my residential address to private businesses to register to vote If the 'SAVE America Act' passes, you're going to be open to leaking a heck of a lot more than that, and it'll all go in to a national database.

TBH I'm not opposed to the government knowing where I live. Having ways to find and lock up actual criminals is not a bad thing.

I'm also not opposed to certain private businesses or financial institutions needing to know who I am. Having ways to identify financial criminals is not a bad thing either.

What I'm vehemently opposed to is these private businesses needing to know where I live. They are not the ones doing the locking up. That's what the government does. Private businesses can identify individuals without needing to know their residential addresses.

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