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Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

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221–230 of 461 posts

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#221

Dario's full memo - https://pasteboard.co/4Qlmsorrytlk.jpg

Wow. Surprising to see open hostilities between the leaders of the big ai labs. The differences appear to not just be competitive but also ideological. Edit: Also openly calling OpenAI employees "gullible" and "twitter morons" seems sub-optimal if you like that talent to work for you at some point. Example - https://x.com/tszzl/status/2029334980481212820

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Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#222
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If I start a small business that sells Apples and the US government comes to me and says "we want to buy your apples and fire them at high speed to" these are now your words "kill adversaries through any means necessary." If I say, no, then am I stopping the military? I feel like it is reasonable that I can say "no, I don't want to sell you my apples." I cannot for the life of me figure out why that means I am stoppi…

More to the point, if everyone stopped selling anything to the military they would still be able to kill people with their bare hands. People are arguably very good at killing people and it takes civilization to train us not to kill each other.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#223
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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There's a reason it's unpopular. If your company makes an herbicide that happens to be very good at killing off anyone who drinks it at a high concentration in their water supply, you're saying that there should be no way for your company to resist being used for mass murder (including unavoidable collateral damage)? Also, the core mission of the military is not "killing its adversaries through any means necessary".…

My conception is that the world would be a much simpler place if war was total. No one would start it unless it would be 200% it could win it. And we would all go through military training just in case, you know, a neighbor drank too much last night and thinks it can win against you.

> The threat of violence is much more powerful than actually committing violence.

While I agree with this statement, the only way the threat works is if from time to time you apply violence to reinforce your capability and availability to actually do it. And the US is really good at actually being violent so others don't even think about doing something against it, at least the majority of countries anyway.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#224
post #192
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> signed up with surveillance company Palantir Just to nitpick, Palantir isn't doing surveillance like Flock. They do data integration the way IBM does under contract for the governments. Some data pipelines include law enforcement surveillance data which get integrated with other software/databases to help police analyze it. There's no evidence they are collecting it themselves despite recent headlines. It's a relat…

It's funny you'd pick IBM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust Though, I guess IBM did get away with lots of stuff that... Actually, did any supply companies in the WWII German war machine actually get in trouble for war crimes, or did they just go after officers and the people actually working in the camps? The company selling punchcards that were used for logistics was apparently fine. What about th…

There were the so-called Subsequent Nuremberg Trials (12 of them). Among them were the trials of IG Farben (gas chamber supplies, Zyklon B) and Krupp (armament of the German military forces in preparation of an aggressive war)

I'm under no illusion that all the perpetrators of war crimes were held accountable but it's not a bad model.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#225
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....why does this make him look bad? That he called out the obvious thing that everyone knows?

That he's talking shit about Altman who is, at least in public, only talking up Anthropic. This will only play well with people who hate Altman, which is not the majority or even much of the public. It plays right into Altman's hand who can do what he always does which is play his "smol bean billionaire" role and act like a victim of big bad Amodei. Just because you hate Altman doesn't mean everyone else does! Most p…

Most people don’t care about this drama and those who care, based on everything I read, this letter will mostly make Anthropic look good / re-establish Sam Altman as a liar

But of course we could live in different bubbles

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#226

Like others have already mentioned: I think Anthropic's relationship with Palantir undermines Amodei's narrative here. It actually feels like Dario is playing Sam's game better than Sam is. Those who know better please correct me. My current understanding of Palantir (and other surveillance tech companies like Peregrine) is: 1. They facilitate the sale of data to law enforcement, enabling the government to circumvent…

They engage with Palantir for non-domestic purposes.

"Non-domestic purposes" specifically includes wiretapping US citizens and residents, and has for at least 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

I suspect the 2007 in the title refers to the fact that bills were passed to ban this stuff in 2007, which is when the PRISM program (also illegal domestic surveillance) got started.

(The title makes it sound like warrantless surveillance lasted from 2001-2007, but I think it means the article only covers that date range.)

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a $200M contract. That’s not nothing but it’s definitely not such a huge sum for these companies at their scale when they’re spending billions on infrastructure. I’m sure anthropic has signed up more revenue this week in response to this debacle to cover it. Where they’re actually screwed is if the gov follows through and declare anthropic a supply chain risk.

That is with the Pentagon directly only. Now they will lose much more because no defense contractor, subcontractor and so on can use them for anything defense related (even if they use the model to invent a new type of screw, if that screw is going to be used in anything military). So yeah, they bet a whole lot on “look at us, we have morals”.

their revenue went up 4 billion in the week since this story started.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#228
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is with the Pentagon directly only. Now they will lose much more because no defense contractor, subcontractor and so on can use them for anything defense related (even if they use the model to invent a new type of screw, if that screw is going to be used in anything military). So yeah, they bet a whole lot on “look at us, we have morals”.

There's no legal basis for blocking defense contractors from using them. Trump's claiming he can do so, but the law doesn't back him up. He'll lose in any fair court, or any corrupt court that values billionaire interests over virtue signaling to the orange one (like the Supreme Court). Also, they got a huge PR win, and jumped to #1 on the Apple App Store. Consumer market share is going to decide which of the AI comp…

There are always Executive Orders that can enforce that. It is not like in the movies where they will sort stuff out in 2 weeks in a single trial. It is going to take years, and we'll see if Anthropic survives that.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#229
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is with the Pentagon directly only. Now they will lose much more because no defense contractor, subcontractor and so on can use them for anything defense related (even if they use the model to invent a new type of screw, if that screw is going to be used in anything military). So yeah, they bet a whole lot on “look at us, we have morals”.

There's no legal basis for blocking defense contractors from using them. Trump's claiming he can do so, but the law doesn't back him up. He'll lose in any fair court, or any corrupt court that values billionaire interests over virtue signaling to the orange one (like the Supreme Court). Also, they got a huge PR win, and jumped to #1 on the Apple App Store. Consumer market share is going to decide which of the AI comp…

Consumer market share? Absolutely not.

If you look at what generates cash, it's corp to corp. That's across most industries. While there are markets that are consumer mostly, LLMs have immense and enormous business facing revenue potential. The consumer market is a gnat in comparison.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#230
post #92

@pg on @sama: "you could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king." In retrospect this quote comes across as way more foreboding given what we've learned about the scale of his ambitions and his willingness to lie and bend reality to gain power. Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. I hope he remains strong in the f…

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