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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#221

Post by ImJamal »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #194
ImJamal wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will all jobs, schools, stores, etc also change their working hours?

Usually there are several hours of reasonable buffer in the morning. We're only talking about moving wakeup time by one hour here.

That massively depends on where you live. The northern most city of British Columbia is Atlin and during some parts of the year the sun doesn't rise until 9:54 AM.

If you take into account places further north than British Columbia it gets even more extreme. Barrows Alaska has the sunrise after 1 PM some days. Do you think businesses, schools, etc are going to start at 1 PM on those days?

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#222

Post by tempestn »

tzs wrote: post #178
jamie_ca wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US decided (and Canada followed) that daylight time was more correct for the larger portion of the year, presumably it's easier to transition the remaining 4mo to daylight than it is to move 8mo to standard. But also, all the opinion polling (business and individual) was like over 90% in favour of year-round daylight time, so here we are.

> The US decided (and Canada followed) that daylight time was more correct for the larger portion of the year, presumably it's easier to transition the remaining 4mo to daylight than it is to move 8mo to standard. How is transitioning permanently to one easier than transitioning permanently to the other? How to transition to permanent DST: wait until we are in DST and then stop switching. How to transition to permane…

If we assume that the ideal time for 8 months of the year is DST and for 4 months is standard, but we want to eliminate the switch, then permanent DST gives you only 4 months out of the ideal timezone rather than 8.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#223

Post by jerlam »

recursive wrote: post #94
watwut wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. The time that would stay is the bad one. With switch, we get reasonable half a years. Without it, it would be whole unreasonable year.

The biggest unreasonability is switching at all. I admit other points of view, but switching back and forth is a compromise that seems far worse than just sticking with one. Either one.

We seem to be in the worst situation now where not only does the EU change their time twice a year, they change it on a different schedule than US/Canada.

For a few weeks during the year, half of your meetings start at a different time. Everyone is confused.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#224

Post by hn_acc1 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #80
esoltys wrote: post #35

Why now? From the Govt of BC press release: "The Interpretation Amendment Act, which is the legal framework that enables the Province to adopt permanent DST, became law in 2019. At the time, government chose not to bring it into force in order to co-ordinate timing with neighbouring U.S. states in the same time zone. Recent actions from the U.S. have shifted how B.C. approaches decisions that merit alignment, includi…

Notably Washington state legislated the same change to DST years ago (instead of standard time, the morons!) but the federal government never approved the switch. AFAIK it's still pending. I remain unclear what authority the federal government has over such a matter and why Washington (or any other) state has opted to respect it. What are they going to do if a state just ignores them and switches their clocks? Someti…

It was only ever a thing to promote civil war grievances.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#225

Post by tempestn »

cpncrunch wrote: post #188
The_Fox wrote: post #25

"Pacific time" is going to be so confusing though. Should have just called it Yukon Standard Time, since that's already a thing, at least informally. Cause that would not be confusing at all...

Yes, it's going to cause a lot of confusion and missed meetings. At the moment everyone says "pacific time", but now that will mean two different things. I think we'll need to say Vancouver time or California time.

Maybe people will finally learn the difference between PST and PDT.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#226

Post by [deleted] »

ink_13 wrote: post #87
WalterGR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. Do you have children? In past HN threads, the preference largely comes down to whether you have children (and want more early morning light for safer trips to school) or not.

I don't have children and I prefer permanent Standard Time because I have the apparently weird belief that noon should be at noon. (i.e. the time 12:00PM should be when the sun is overhead) I'm not a "capitalism gives you brain worms" kind of person, but the idea that it is somehow better to literally change the location of the sun in the sky because the holy hours of 9-5 are sacrosanct is so strange to me.

[deleted]

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#227

Post by toast0 »

somat wrote: post #105
jcranmer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people hate standard time in winter because the sun sets at 4 or 5, and they want the sun to instead set at 8 or 9 like it does in summer. DST in winter doesn't actually give you the 8 or 9 sunset, it gives you a 5 or 6 sunset (which doesn't get you all that much) combined with moving your sunrise to 8 or 9, which causes its own set of issues most people don't think about. The last time we went to year-round…

Obviously(/s) the solution is to change to a sunset centered day. new day starts at sunset so people can get up late and enjoy the maxim number of daylight hours. I always find it strange how particular people are about the numbers attached a purely astronomical phenomena(myself included, but I am pretty hard in the "let the sun figure it out camp"). If they want more "daylight" hours then get up at a time to enjoy t…

Does the night belong to the day it follows or the day it precedes?

Does it become Friday at dawn, at sunset, at noon, or at midnight?

This is all convention and not something that can be decided objectively.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#228

Post by gwerbin »

jorvi wrote: post #143
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Yeah I don't agree with this at all. I want the light when I'm getting up in the morning. When I'm coming home from work it's the end of the day: I'm tired, I'm hustling home to do errands or chores or make dinner, I'm probably going to spend that time inside anyway because that's where the things that I need to get done are, and if it it's going to be cold and windy, it's going to be cold and windy in the evening. I much much prefer daylight in the morning and I like when noon is actually noon (+/- depending on longitude). I'm not looking forward to the time change and I'm not looking forward to the sun setting at 9 PM.

If it wasn't for that damn 9 AM Monday meeting (ugh) I would just keep my clocks sent to standard time and start work an hour late in the summer.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#229

Post by dzhiurgis »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Kids walking, biking, and being driven to school in mornings in darkness.

It's not 1900s anymore. Cars have fancy headlights and sensor suites for AEB. And generally street lighting is available around schools.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#230

Post by satiric »

cpncrunch wrote: post #188
The_Fox wrote: post #25

"Pacific time" is going to be so confusing though. Should have just called it Yukon Standard Time, since that's already a thing, at least informally. Cause that would not be confusing at all...

Yes, it's going to cause a lot of confusion and missed meetings. At the moment everyone says "pacific time", but now that will mean two different things. I think we'll need to say Vancouver time or California time.

Mountain time is ambiguous due to Arizona, and yet we still use that phrase. Hawaii-Aleutian time is also ambiguous: the Aleutian islands do daylight savings, but Hawaii doesn't.

Casual speech doesn't use the city names (like America/Los_Angeles for pacific time); presumably we'd have Pacific time (America/Los_Angeles) and BC time (an update of the existing America/Vancouver). If Washington's time change ever gets approved it would presumably become simply Washington time (America/Seattle maybe?).

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