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Russia's economy has entered the death zone

economist.com

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Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#221

Post by ivan_gammel »

drysine wrote: post #220
ivan_gammel wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t understand your point. Are you questioning the choice of metaphor? Ukraine cutting supply of electricity and water to Crimea did demonstrate the attitude of the Ukrainian government to people it considered once their citizen. It obviously wasn’t a part of the current chapter of the war.

>Are you questioning the choice of metaphor? Yes, there is nothing like 'nuclear war without nukes' that is happening here. And I was trying to demonstrate that your logic seem to lead to conclusion that the 'nuclear war without nukes' started in 2014. >to people it considered once their citizen It is still considering them Ukrainian citizens.

Do you realize that it’s just figure of speech, not the core argument?

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#222

Post by red-iron-pine »

wiseowise wrote: post #172
twelve40 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol you can call it crap if it makes you feel better, but McDonalds was replaced by the same vendors, making the same stuff sourced mostly locally as before, using the same processes that McDonalds used, they just don't send their revenue to the US anymore. Same for Ikea (majority of stuff sold at Ikea was sourced locally and continues under local brands), same for Starbucks - Shokoladnitsa is subjectively better and…

Uhuh, and Coca Cola was replaced by… Coca Cola from near Asian republics. iPhones and GPUs imported for obscene prices. AutoVAZ is pretty much rebranded Chinese cars. Chinese mine and destroy Russian nature for cheap coal to reduce their emissions rate. Strategic independence my ass.

Russia is now China's Canada

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#223

Post by red-iron-pine »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #147
DrProtic wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has 2.2% unemployment Germany has 6.3% Spain 9.9% France 7.9% All while having millions of foreigners/immigrants to support.

Based on the article, I assume Russian employment is in the military complex?

correct. they've mostly shifted to a militarized economy and all available labor is now gobbled up.

salaries are pretty good, relatively speaking, if you're in engineering or other STEM fields.

excess labor is being drained off to die horribly to drones in eastern Ukraine.

it's kind of like a fat guy starving to death -- for a minute all that weight loss will bring improvements to blood pressure, insulin, etc., but in a couple weeks he's not gonna feel so great

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#224

Post by red-iron-pine »

kaivi wrote: post #38
dyauspitr wrote: post #19

How does Russia have $73 billion dollars worth of debt. Who is buying Russian treasuries? Also how did the GDP grow by 1% in 2025, is that a function of the internal Defence spending activity?

> how did the GDP grow by 1% in 2025 Build tanks -> increase GDP Send those tanks to burn with men inside -> increase GDP per capita

essentially a highly explosive "broken window fallacy"

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#225

Post by tim333 »

Haven880 wrote: post #160

The only way is just to cede the land and move on. Keep the people alive. 100 years later one can renegotiate. This kind of copium hope wishing the economy collapse or something like Mongol collapse is just not practical. The longer this drag on, the lesser fertile men exist in Ukraine and the population recovery will take even longer while Russian outbirth in the long run. Sometime to win one has to abide by time. J…

They don't just want land though. They want 'denazification' which means overthrowing the government and making it like Belarus or Bucha.

I think the way is to support Ukraine to win rather than the 'escalation management' of Biden or the taking bribes to pressure Ukraine to surrender of Trump.

They are not doing so badly recently. 200 sq km taken back last week.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#226

Post by drysine »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #221
drysine wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you questioning the choice of metaphor? Yes, there is nothing like 'nuclear war without nukes' that is happening here. And I was trying to demonstrate that your logic seem to lead to conclusion that the 'nuclear war without nukes' started in 2014. >to people it considered once their citizen It is still considering them Ukrainian citizens.

Do you realize that it’s just figure of speech, not the core argument?

My argument is that you can't bring strategic defeat without leveling cities or utterly destroying the power generation and electric grid. And that's not what is happening in the Ukraine or even Belgorod for that matter

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#227

Post by tuesdaynight »

ericmay wrote: post #216
bulbar wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many welcomed the Nazis when they invaded Eastern Europe because they relieved them from the Soviets. When literal Nazis are perceived as the better option you can imagine the alternative isn't very shiny.

Part of Russian propaganda over the years has been this view of the "clean Red Army". You see it all over the Internet. "American history books teach it wrong". It was the Soviets, they insist, that fought the good war and good victory over the Nazis and western powers only fought the frail, old German army in the west. Reality on the ground is much different. While the Soviets did bear the brunt of the Nazi onslaugh…

To be fair, American propaganda had the same effect. For example, in South America, if you ask the average person about WW2, people will talk about USA mostly. Most people would be surprised if you told them that URSS had 24 million deaths, almost 50x what USA had. I'm not saying that USA didn't play a major role, but it's weird how it is the only country besides Germany that is ingrained in America (continent) mind when you talk about WW2

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#228

Post by pointlessone »

trymas wrote: post #191
pointlessone wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so? They had changed form of government twice in less than a century. Not just head of state or ruling party, form of government. You assume that because their baseline is miserable they can tolerate a lot but there’s a big difference between living a miserable life unter a totalitarian regime barely affording basic necessities, and all the same but starving.

> They had changed form of government twice in less than a century. IMHO ruzzia hasn't changed in ~450-500 years since Ivan the Terrible. No matter how they sell their way of governing to international scene - it's always a tzar rulling with iron fist. There were optimistic glimpses that they will grow out of it, but it always returns back to tzar.

It doesn’t change the fact that people took political action on a massive scale. Both times mostly motivated by unsatisfactory personal circumstance.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#230

Post by don_esteban »

drysine wrote: post #179
ivan_gammel wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This war has already changed. Near-stalemate on the front lines, exchange of strikes on civilian infrastructure (Ukraine made to Belgorod what Russia made to Kiev). It‘s a nuclear war without nukes, aiming at strategic defeat without advancing armies. And Russia definitely has more resources for it.

>It‘s a nuclear war without nukes No, it's not. Even Ukrainians rarely target civilians.

They do target civilians. It is just not convenient to show it in the western sources, so you don't know about it.

However, it is true that they do not do it on the scale Israel is doing.

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