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Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#221

Post by galangalalgol »

Herring wrote: post #218
galangalalgol wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking in immigrants is a short term solution. Within one generation their fertility rate drops to match the local one. Which means you have to keep bringing in new ones. That means there is never time to integrate, leading to cultural clashes and second class labor. And unless you are pulling from Africa or a couple middle eastern countries, the source of immigration is also declining in population at this point so…

> That means there is never time to integrate, leading to cultural clashes and second class labor. That's a far-right talking point. It's not true. The US has been wholesale importing immigrants for a long time and benefiting greatly from it. The problem is the safety nets broke down, eg minimum wage hasn't kept up with anything. Or housing/college/healthcare pricing has gone up much faster than income. When people f…

It is a far right talking point, or just right now I guess? But it also is a reasonable one. Not from the blood and soil only Europeans are American standpoint, but from the standpoint of having an increasing percentage of first generation immigrants. Japan has seen issues with this at the same time they have benefitted from it. It isn't a matter of blaming the immigrants, it is a disservice to them too. We can't welcome them properly at the rates that would be necessary to fully offset fertility decline. That doesn't mean we shouldn't allow any immigration at all. We should do it as quickly as we can do it correctly. And that would be true even without the demographic problem. Having one or two immigrants in a school is probably too low, we can go faster than that. Having half the class be new from varying places doesn't work. It is also a problem for the donating countries. South America can't afford for all their working age people to head to Spain, they are already hitting their own demographic decline. Africa is on the other side still. They have too many children relative to the working age population. Taking only working age men and not their children harms Africa in a similar way.

I'm not saying allowing immigration in a steady controlled fashion won't help, just that it won't be enough, and that the levels that would be enough aren't possible without impacts on the immigrants, their new countries, and their originating countries being severe enough they don't balance.

Right now the US has 4.1% of its population residing unlawfully. That is 8-20x any European nation. It is largely due to the federated system and a suspicion of national identity systems, but just being able to bring in the rate we have been, but correctly through the system would be a start.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#223

Post by Terr_ »

esafak wrote: post #184
Terr_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite all its other warts, the FISA court is (A) an actual judicial-branch court (B) created by legislation and (C) the justices cannot be removed on direct Presidential whim. In contrast, "administrative warrants" are more like an executive-branch manager writing a memo, where an unscrupulous President could get them removed in a day for not writing the "right" memos.

You think fisa is the good one? They're widely recognized as rubber-stamp courts.

> > Despite all its other warts, the FISA court is [a real court]

> You think fisa is the good one?

Is this an accidental fail to comprehend, or a deliberate strawman?

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#224

Post by burnt-resistor »

Herring wrote: post #44

Reminder that the most reliable way to prevent the rise of the far right is to implement robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. Support for such measures (eg welfare, healthcare, unionization, redistribution etc) is usually low among Americans.

Similar to plantation owners convincing poor white Southerners that the North was threatening their "way of life", billionaires used media to manufacture consent of a large subset of Americans that [insert scapegoats] are "the problem". Separating church and state and wealth and media are essential to having a functioning democratic flavor of government.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#225

Post by rayiner »

asveikau wrote: post #214
esafak wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think fisa is the good one? They're widely recognized as rubber-stamp courts.

Fisa doesn't have to be good for these phony sheet of paper warrants to be worse.

You’re comparing apples and oranges. These administrative warrants are very limited in scope. They are closer to the subpoenas that even ordinary civilian lawyers can send third parties in the course of litigation. They don’t give the government the power to bust into Google’s data center. The target has to respond or else challenge the warrant in court, but ordinary civilian subpoenas function the same way.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#226

Post by asveikau »

rayiner wrote: post #225
asveikau wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fisa doesn't have to be good for these phony sheet of paper warrants to be worse.

You’re comparing apples and oranges. These administrative warrants are very limited in scope. They are closer to the subpoenas that even ordinary civilian lawyers can send third parties in the course of litigation. They don’t give the government the power to bust into Google’s data center. The target has to respond or else challenge the warrant in court, but ordinary civilian subpoenas function the same way.

That's not at all what I've been hearing from reports of people getting these. They find that they're not at all targeted. They frequently don't even know who the target is. The officers get asked for a warrant and they might produce a bullshit piece of paper which is really just a memo.

Anyway, it's not "me" comparing these alleged apples and oranges, I am replying deep in a thread of other people making these comparisons.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#227

Post by goatlover »

sejje wrote: post #217
goatlover wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is motivated enough to attend protests, they're motivated enough to go vote.

Many of the people who go to protests have lost their right to vote.

Not sure what that means. Mostly ordinary citizens go to protests. Not aware of any group paying felons to protest. Speaking of, is Trump allowed to vote?

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#228

Post by wellf »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #17

This is the point where most of the public would probably acknowledge that digital privacy is worth seeking. If you're in a fascist or communist state, announcing your political opinions online without anonymity is generally not advisable.

7 deckchairs on the left, 456 on the right, that might help right the ship.

Re: Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts

#229

Post by wellf »

willturman wrote: post #166
hackyhacky wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of these (word of mouth, community organizations, religious organizations, meetups, neighborhood meetings) don't work beyond the local area. Many of these (radio broadcast, independent websites) aren't accessible to non-technical people. Many of these (cultural traditions, town criers) are obviously unserious.

Every single one of these has been effectively used to organize at geographic scale within this most recent century before "non-technical" even existed as a possible descriptor of a human being. Many of them necessitate going outside, which may present an imaginative hurdle.

Imagine electicity in the home is made availiable but the deal is you can have it only if you don't use said electricity to exercise freedom of speech against the government, e.g. use a lamp to help you write the speech. And they have a way to track you if you do. And the alternative is no electrcity.

Online services like email and social media even are utilities.

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