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Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

age-verifier.kibty.town

221–230 of 494 posts

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I played an MMOG, if the admins found out that a child was underage, it was customary for them to suspend their account until their 13th birthday. I thought this was a clever policy, but I just can't understand the reverse of authenticating someone's age based on that of their account...

This assumes people are putting in their real birthdays, which IMO is a terrible practice to encourage. I never put in my real birthday. It's just one more datapoint to leak in an inevitable hack and help scammers exploit me. Just because a website sticks a field on a form, doesn't mean you need to fill it out. I can think of maybe 1 website I use that has a legitimate use to know this info about me... and a dozen th…

They were not, actually.

IIRC, it went like this: the account creation screen prompted them for a birthdate. They entered a fictitious one and pretended to be over 13. (I saw my niece do this in front of me, and I just sighed a very heavy sigh. She was way more interested in Club Penguin.)

Then later, they let the cat out of the bag. They tell their friends "lol I'm only 10! Today's my birthday, so give me a hat!" or something. And so if they claimed they're 10 they got 3 years suspension.

I think there was never any verification done, and no verification was possible: think about it, under COPPA, a service in the USA cannot collect PII from children under 13, so what do you do when a kid gives you two contradicting datapoints? Err on the side of caution.

I gave Yahoo! a false birthdate when I signed up. I was 27, but I also just felt they weren't entitled to knowing it. However, I soon found that maintaining a fraudulent identity is tiresome and error-prone. And Yahoo! wouldn't let me simply change my birthdate as often as I wanted to.

I once had a conversation with a friend about cheating on IRS taxes. She said "can you lie to a piece of paper?" like fudging numbers wasn't like lying to an auditor's face. It was a rhetorical question, of course.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how they work. They emit structured light in the form of an array of infrared dots and they measure the time of flight to where the dots strike something. Maybe new ones are different but that’s how they used to be. Little Kinect devices, really, for sensing faces instead of whole people.

You are exactly right. There's a description here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de... These cameras are considered a "secure biometric" device and AFAIK nobody has faked them. I've flagged the poster who said "try two flat images"

You don't need to flag people who make a mistake.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#223
post #217

Three problems with this: 1. Removes the pain of age verification, encouraging some people to stay in the proprietary walled garden when everyone would be better served by open platforms (and network effects). 2. Provides a pretext for more invasive age verification and identification, because "the privacy-respecting way is too easily circumvented". 3. Encourages people to run arbitrary code from a random Web site in…

Proving that something is possible doesn't mean encouraging it. This was a beautiful work of reverse engineering, that shows how hard it can be to verify personal data without invading privacy. I prefer this awareness to blind trust.

The code was released, therefore it is not arbitrary (problem #3). Should companies react with more invasive techniques (problem #2), users can always move to other platforms (problem #1).

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#224
post #97
post #83

This project is something that we would want to archive pretty quickly. I can see those service being upset over that being exposed.

You're assuming discord or twitch actually care. I doubt they actually do. It's there to preempt the regulatory hammer, and the presence of clunky workarounds like this doesn't affect it if it doesn't reach the mainstream. If it does, they can just patch it.

the hammer of the gov't works slowly, but such bypasses will eventually be worked around - it doesn't matter if twitch/discord/etc actually care or not, because their care is irrelevant.

> the presence of clunky workarounds like this doesn't affect it if it doesn't reach the mainstream.

i suspect that mainstream would eventually find it - like how VPNs suddenly became very popular in the UK.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If the law says "you must perform such-and-such steps to verify age" then no, they don't care if you can counter it. If the law says "you must use an approach that is at least x% effective" then yes they do care if enough people counter it. We already had a half-assed solution, where websites would require you to press the button that says "I am over 18". Clearly somebody decided that wasn't good enough.…

How about just requiring browser, OS vendors, and phone makers to give parents real child accounts that are easy to use and keep kids off the Internet?

I'm becoming increasingly cynical that the lack of privacy in online communication is what most of the sponsors of these bills are after, and people thinking of the real harms to children are useful to them.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If the law says "you must perform such-and-such steps to verify age" then no, they don't care if you can counter it. If the law says "you must use an approach that is at least x% effective" then yes they do care if enough people counter it. We already had a half-assed solution, where websites would require you to press the button that says "I am over 18". Clearly somebody decided that wasn't good enough.…

How about just requiring browser, OS vendors, and phone makers to give parents real child accounts that are easy to use and keep kids off the Internet?

I would rather avoid having the government decide what I should run on my devices, private companies are already bad enough.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#227
post #4

The real and robust method will be generating artificial video input instead of the real webcam. I really don’t think any platform will be able to counter this. If they start requiring to use a phone with harder to spoof camera input, you will simply be able to put the camera in front of a high resolution screen. The cat and mouse game will not last long.

Apple is believed to be adding multispectral imaging to future generations of the iPhone. This and 3d mapping are more than enough to defeat the "point the camera at a high res screen" trick.

The issue is that age verifiers (like Discord) are not really trying.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#228

Highly recommend wrapping the code to drop into the console in a immediately-invoked function expression; as it stands, it doesn't work in macOS Safari without an IIFE because top-level await is not supported in any version of Safari yet https://caniuse.com/wf-top-level-await .

Why bother supporting Safari when they aren't interested in supporting the modern web? They're five years behind.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#229
"k-id, the age verification provider discord uses doesn't store or send your face to the server. instead, it sends a bunch of metadata about your face and general process details."

I think the primary issue is not the "send your face" (face info) to a server. The problem is that private entities are greedy for user data, in this case tying facial recognition to activities related to interacting with other people, most of them probably real people. So this creates a huge database - it is no surprise that greedy state actors and private companies want that data. You can use it for many things, including targeted ads.

For me the "must verify" is clearly a lie. They can make it "sound logical" but that does not convince me in the slightest. Back in the age of IRC (I started with mIRC in the 1990s, when I was using windows still), the thought of requiring others to show their faces never occurred to me at all. There were eventually video-related formats but to me it felt largely unnecessary for the most part. Discord is (again to me) nothing but a fancier IRC variant that is controlled by a private (and evidently greedy) actor.

So while it is good to have the information how to bypass anything there, my biggest gripe is that people should not think about it in this way. Meaning, bypassing is not what I would do in this case; I would simply abandon the private platform altogether. People made Discord big; people should make Discord small again if they sniff after them.

Re: Discord/Twitch/Snapchat age verification bypass

#230
post #4

The real and robust method will be generating artificial video input instead of the real webcam. I really don’t think any platform will be able to counter this. If they start requiring to use a phone with harder to spoof camera input, you will simply be able to put the camera in front of a high resolution screen. The cat and mouse game will not last long.

But how many users will do so? 1%? 5%?

Also, they will probably find that out, and the moment people do so, they become suspicious to state actors. I understand the rationale behind the work around you described; I just don't think it will be a huge factor. I see this elsewhere too - for instance, I use ublock origin a lot. But how many people world wide use it? I think never above 30%, most likely significantly fewer (or perhaps all anti-advertisement extensions, I think it most definitely is below 50% and probably below 30% too).

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