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AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

simonwillison.net

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Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#221

Post by sdf2erf »

rybosworld wrote: post #206
cedws wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m finding that the code LLMs produce is just average. Not great, not terrible. Which makes sense, the model is basically a complex representation of the average of its training data right? If I want what I consider ‘good code’ I have to steer it. So I wouldn’t use LLMs to produce significant chunks of code for something I care about. And publishing vibe coded projects under my own GitHub user feels like it devalues…

We've gone from "it's glorified auto-complete" to "the quality of working, end-to-end features, is average", in just ~2 years. I think it goes without saying that they will be writing "good code" in short time. I also wonder how much of this "I don't trust them yet" viewpoint is coming from people who are using agents the least. Is it rare that AI one-shots code that I would be willing to raise as a PR with my name o…

I think your kind of missing the point.

Think about it from a resource (calorie) expenditure stand point.

Are you expending more resources on writing the prompts vs just doing without it? Thats the real question.

If you are expending more, which is what Simon is indicating at - are you really better off? Id argue not, given that this cant be sustained for hours on end. Yet the expectation from management might be that you should be able to sustain this for 8 hours.

So again, are you better off? Not in the slightest.

Many things in life are counter-intuitive and not so simple.

P.s. youre not getting paid more for increasing productivity if you are still expected to work 8 hrs a day... lmao. Thankfully im not a SWE.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#222

Post by simondoubleu »

simonw wrote: post #196
tzury wrote: post #188

I would learn more about air combat by listening to a 12 minutes conversation with a jet fighter pilot, than I will from 3-day seminar by air force journalists. Tell me about what’s the LLM impact on your work, on account your work is not wiring about AI. Or if one wish for a more explicit noise filter: Don’t tell me what AI can do. Show me what you shipped with it that isn’t about AI.

> Show me what you shipped with it that isn’t about AI. From this weekend: https://github.com/simonw/sqlite-history-json and https://github.com/datasette/datasette-sqlite-history-json

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Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#223

Post by simondoubleu »

gedy wrote: post #15
fhd2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kills me personally is that I'm constantly 80% there, but the remaining 20% can be just insurmountable. It's really like gambling: Just one more round and it'll be useful, OK, not quite, just one more, for hours.

And let's get real: AI companies will not be satisfied with you paying $20 or even $200 month if you can actually develop your product in a few days with their agents. They are either going to charge a lot more or string you along chasing that 20%.

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Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#224

Post by wiseowise »

yieldcrv wrote: post #47
wiseowise wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it will be like an Ebola virus, so that everyone will see how deadly it is instead of like smoking where you die of cancer 40 years down the line.

I think I'll have a happier medium when I get additional inputs set up, such as just talking to a CLI running my full code base on a VPS, but through my phone and airpods, only when it needs help at least I won't be vegetating at a laptop, or shirking other possible responsibilities to get back to a laptop

I’ll never get “I wish I could control it from y phone” types, or “I’ve been working while walking my dog, amazing”. Why would you want to subject yourself to work outside of working hours?

The beauty of work laptop is that either I work or I don’t. Laptop open - work time, laptop closed - goodbye, see you on Monday.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#225

Post by simondoubleu »

elicash wrote: post #174
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leftist thought process never ceases to amaze me: "This time, its going to be the correct version of socialism."

You can be libertarian and a capitalist and still be pro-union. At the end of the day, a Collective Bargaining Agreement is just a private contract between two parties. It can be a way to raise wages without government setting a minimum price for labor. While I'd agree most of its proponents (like myself) also favor other left-wing policies, I'm just saying it doesn't need to be.

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Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#226

Post by ikr678 »

rkomorn wrote: post #95
co_king_3 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So everything stays exactly the same? No, we get applications so hideously inefficient that your $3000 developer machine feels like it it's running a Pentium II with 256 MB of RAM. We get software that's as slow as it was 30 years ago, for no reason other than our own arrogance and apathy.

I find it hard to disagree with this (sadly). I do feels things in general are more "snappy" at the OS level, but once you get into apps (local or web), things don't feel much better than 30 years ago. The two big exceptions for me are video and gaming. I wonder how people who work in CAD, media editing, or other "heavy" workloads etc, feel.

Moving data for 'heavy' workflows into the cloud is the most common performance bottleneck I see.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#227

Post by rybosworld »

sdf2erf wrote: post #221
rybosworld wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gone from "it's glorified auto-complete" to "the quality of working, end-to-end features, is average", in just ~2 years. I think it goes without saying that they will be writing "good code" in short time. I also wonder how much of this "I don't trust them yet" viewpoint is coming from people who are using agents the least. Is it rare that AI one-shots code that I would be willing to raise as a PR with my name o…

I think your kind of missing the point. Think about it from a resource (calorie) expenditure stand point. Are you expending more resources on writing the prompts vs just doing without it? Thats the real question. If you are expending more, which is what Simon is indicating at - are you really better off? Id argue not, given that this cant be sustained for hours on end. Yet the expectation from management might be tha…

I don't think I'm missing the point and respectfully, I think your reply is completely unrelated to anything that I said.

Whether you are "better off or not" is a separate topic, and I never suggested one way or the other.

Simon's point is that engineers can be so productive with these tools that it is tempting to work (much) longer.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#228

Post by sdf2erf »

rybosworld wrote: post #227
sdf2erf wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your kind of missing the point. Think about it from a resource (calorie) expenditure stand point. Are you expending more resources on writing the prompts vs just doing without it? Thats the real question. If you are expending more, which is what Simon is indicating at - are you really better off? Id argue not, given that this cant be sustained for hours on end. Yet the expectation from management might be tha…

I don't think I'm missing the point and respectfully, I think your reply is completely unrelated to anything that I said. Whether you are "better off or not" is a separate topic, and I never suggested one way or the other. Simon's point is that engineers can be so productive with these tools that it is tempting to work (much) longer.

Simon: "I'm frequently finding myself with work on two or three projects running parallel. I can get so much done, but after just an hour or two my mental energy for the day feels almost entirely depleted."

Youre a time waster, stop posting and creating noise.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#229

Post by gtowey »

sabas123 wrote: post #166
co_king_3 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So everything stays exactly the same? No, we get applications so hideously inefficient that your $3000 developer machine feels like it it's running a Pentium II with 256 MB of RAM. We get software that's as slow as it was 30 years ago, for no reason other than our own arrogance and apathy.

> No, we get applications so hideously inefficient that your $3000 developer machine feels like it it's running a Pentium II with 256 MB of RAM. > We get software that's as slow as it was 30 years ago, for no reason other than our own arrogance and apathy. I feel like I read this exact same take on this site for the past 15 years.

Because it's been true for the past 15 years.

Re: AI doesn’t reduce work, it intensifies it

#230

Post by cube00 »

aetherspawn wrote: post #144

I’m convinced all these blog posts on AI productivity are some kind of high level propaganda trying to create a Folie à deux that AI is much better than it is. The worst part is that it’s so convincing: not only does everyone who can’t make it work feel gaslit about it, but some people even pretend that it works for them so they don’t feel like they’re missing out. I remember the last time this happened and people we…

It certainly feels like a lot of the crypto bros have moved on to being AI bros.

I'm chalking my poor experience to being too cheap to pay $200 a month for Claude Max 20x so I can run the multiple agents that need to supervise each other.

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