221–230 of 387 posts
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From an IBM training manual (1979): >A computer can never be held accountable >Therefore a computer must never make a management decision The (EDITED) corollary would arguably be: >Corporations are amoral entities which are potentially immortal who cannot be placed behind bars. Therefore they should never be given the rights of human beings. (potentially, not absolutely immortal --- would wording as "not mortal by es…
How is a corporation "immortal"? What is the oldest corporation in the world? I mean, aside from churches and stuff. Corporations can die or be killed in numerous ways. Not many of them will live forever. Most will barely outlive a normal human's lifespan. By definition, since a corporation comprises a group of people, it could never outlive the members, should they all die at some point. Let us also draw a distincti…
If kills 1 person they won’t close Google. If steals 1 billion, won’t close either. So what needs to do such a company to be closed down?
I think it’s almost impossible to shut down
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Considering that even if you reduce llms to being complex autocomplete machines they are still machines that were trained to emulate a corpus of human knowledge, and that they have emerging behaviors based on that. So it's very logical to attribute human characteristics, even though they're not human.
I addressed that directly in the comment you’re replying to. It’s understandable people readily anthropomorphize algorithmic output designed to provoke anthropomorphized responses. It is not desire-able, safe, logical, or rational since (to paraphrase:), they are complex text transformation algorithms that can, at best, emulate training data reinforced by benchmarks and they display emergent behaviours based on those…
>They are not human, so attributing human characteristics to them is highly illogical
Nothing illogical about it. We attribute human characterists when we see human-like behavior (that's what "attributing human characteristics" is supposed to be by definition). Not just when we see humans behaving like humans.
Calling them "human" would be illogical, sure. But attributing human characteristics is highly logical. It's a "talks like a duck, walks like a duck" recognition, not essentialism.
After all, human characteristics is a continium of external behaviors and internal processing, some of which we share with primates and other animals (non-humans!) already, and some of which we can just as well share with machines or algorithms.
"Only humans can have human like behavior" is what's illogical. E.g. if we're talking about walking, there are modern robots that can walk like a human. That's human like behavior.
Speaking or reasoning like a human is not out of reach either. To a smaller or larger or even to an "indistinguisable from a human on a Turing test" degree, other things besides humans, whether animals or machines or algorithms can do such things too.
>That irrationality should raise biological and engineering red flags. Plus humanization ignores the profit motives directly attached to these text generators, their specialized corpus’s, and product delivery surrounding them.
The profit motives are irrelevant. Even a FOSS, not-for-profit hobbyist LLM would exhibit similar behaviors.
>Pretending your MS RDBMS likes you better than Oracles because it said so is insane business thinking (in addition to whatever that means psychologically for people who know the truth of the math).
Good thing that we aren't talking about RDBMS then....
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Considering that even if you reduce llms to being complex autocomplete machines they are still machines that were trained to emulate a corpus of human knowledge, and that they have emerging behaviors based on that. So it's very logical to attribute human characteristics, even though they're not human.
I addressed that directly in the comment you’re replying to. It’s understandable people readily anthropomorphize algorithmic output designed to provoke anthropomorphized responses. It is not desire-able, safe, logical, or rational since (to paraphrase:), they are complex text transformation algorithms that can, at best, emulate training data reinforced by benchmarks and they display emergent behaviours based on those…
What? If a human child grew up with ducks, only did duck like things and never did any human things, would you say it would irrational to attribute duck characteristics to them?
> That irrationality should raise biological and engineering red flags. Plus humanization ignores the profit motives directly attached to these text generators, their specialized corpus’s, and product delivery surrounding them.
But thinking they're human is irrational. Attributing something that is the sole purpose of them, having human characteristics is rational.
> Pretending your MS RDBMS likes you better than Oracles because it said so is insane business thinking (in addition to whatever that means psychologically for people who know the truth of the math).
You're moving the goalposts.
If we abstract out the notion of "ethical constraints" and "KPIs" and look at the issue from a low-level LLM point of view, I think it is very likely that what these tests verified is a combination of: 1) the ability of the models to follow the prompt with conflicting constraints, and 2) their built-in weights in case of the SAMR metric as defined in the paper. Essentially the models are given a set of conflicting co…
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Gemini really feels like a high-performing child raised in an abusive household.
Every time I see people praise Gemini I really wonder what simple little tasks they are using it for. Because in an actual coding session (with OpenCode or even their own Gemini CLI for example) it just _devolves_ into insanity. And not even at high token counts! No, I've had it had a mental breakdown at like 150.000 tokens (which I know is a lot of tokens, but it's small compared to the 1 million tokens it should be…
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How is a corporation "immortal"? What is the oldest corporation in the world? I mean, aside from churches and stuff. Corporations can die or be killed in numerous ways. Not many of them will live forever. Most will barely outlive a normal human's lifespan. By definition, since a corporation comprises a group of people, it could never outlive the members, should they all die at some point. Let us also draw a distincti…
What needs to do a company from fortune 7 to die? If kills 1 person they won’t close Google. If steals 1 billion, won’t close either. So what needs to do such a company to be closed down? I think it’s almost impossible to shut down
I do not know what a "fortune 7" might be, but companies are dissolved all the time. Thousands per year, just administratively.
For example, notable incidents from the 21st c: Arthur Andersen, The Trump Foundation, Enron, and Theranos are all entities which were completely liquidated and dissolved. They no longer meaningfully exist to transact business. They are dead, and definitely 100% not immortal.
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A remarkable number of humans given really quite basic feedback will perform actions they know will very directly hurt or kill people. There are a lot of critiques about quite how to interpret the results but in this context it’s pretty clear lots of humans can be at least coerced into doing something extremely unethical. Start removing the harm one, two, three degrees and add personal incentives and is it that surpr…
> 2012, Australian psychologist Gina Perry investigated Milgram's data and writings and concluded that Milgram had manipulated the results, and that there was a "troubling mismatch between (published) descriptions of the experiment and evidence of what actually transpired." She wrote that "only half of the people who undertook the experiment fully believed it was real and of those, 66% disobeyed the experimenter".[29…