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ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#221

Post by giaour »

runsWphotons wrote: post #108
elnatro wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, enlighten me a non-American, what laws allow shooting and killing civilians on broad light on the USA?

When an officer has reasonable suspicion that a civilian poses a threat to his life, he can shoot them. Once police start shooting they are trained to continue shooting until the target is incapacitated. That's the law. Whether the recent shootings you saw meet that standard is up for debate.

Beyond the reasonable suspicion of a threat to their life, the officer must believe that: a) the threat is imminent, and b) the threat will reasonably be mitigated by the application of force. An officer cannot, for example, immediately shoot someone who plausibly promises to murder them in 36 hours.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#222

Post by Kim_Bruning »

surgical_fire wrote: post #215
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with your situation, and I'm not calling you a monster. But "I had no choice, I had people depending on me" is the exact reasoning that has enabled every atrocity carried out by ordinary people; it's the banality of evil. None of the individual acts seem evil. Conducting a census isn't evil. Collating the data isn't evil. Arresting people with the wrong papers isn't necessarily evil. Driving a train isn'…

I understand quite well. The banality of evil is a thing because most people have actual very little power to enact meaningful change. Risking yourself for the well being of complete strangers is commendable, but often has an obscene cost for the individual. I reject that societal and systemic issues can be fixed by individual action, unless as an individual you are extremely powerful (and the ones that are typically…

My father keeps asking me why I don't I ever apply to $BIGCO and earn more money. I certainly have the ability, he says.

But I ask him, "But would you work for Lex Luthor?"

He doesn't have a good comeback to that.

Anyway, I (mostly, hopefully) try to make my small corner of the world a happy place. And I hope everyone else does for theirs.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#223

Post by ljm »

Diti wrote: post #71
testfrequency wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not awake already, you support what’s happening. Blind, which I realize is a bit of the wild west, is full of racist anti-immigration/pro ICE hatred. Obviously, you can see where users work/worked, and it’s every company you could imagine. The sad reality is that a lot of people will do what they can to support racist agendas, possibly even motivate them to work at certain companies as it feels moralizing t…

With the sorry state the software industry is currently in, I’m not surprised that developers would sell their soul in exchange for the peace of mind of being able to pay rent and food. Working for those companies does not make people “do what they can to support racist agendas”.

Perhaps to show the level of privilege I enjoy as a software engineer with some level of seniority, I have had zero problem resigning from a position (more than once in fact) because I objected to something my employer was doing. It's been enough for me to filter potential opportunities exclusively to tech-for-good concerns.

Sure, I don't earn half a million a year total comp to kiss some billionaire's ass, but I still have a very comfortable lifestyle that is well above the median.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#224

Post by donkeybeer »

hikkerl wrote: post #214
int0x29 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a warrant. The federal government should not be "soliciting vendors" for my location. I love how the accounts defending ICE are always brand new.

[flagged]

What? Where's the bad faith? You made a really dumb argument and got a simple factual response. And you still failed to engage with that response instead making up imaginary persecution.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#225

Post by maldev »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #208
maldev wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Since i cant reply to your flagged comment above, ill do it here. > And I gotta ask, you think it's just two oceans, and what your experience is in the intelligence community field? Are you just assuming without knowing the inner workings? This depicts the distribution of refugees caused by iraq and afghan wars. Which, to remind you, were proudly based on lies. > https://www.unhcr.org/news/press-releases/iraqis-afgha…

Are you implying that refugees are terrorists? Also, according to any refugee agreement, you go to the first country of safe harbor. Not across the world. Why can’t they go back now, make Iraq great?

Also, they arnt killing Americans anymore are they? We gave them everything we could. But the afghan army chose to just do drugs and do nothing and now their women can’t go to school and don’t have rights again.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#226

Post by account42 »

elnatro wrote: post #192
frumplestlatz wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Does that law allow killing them by shooting? I suppose that officers need to detain them, read their rights, and put them in court. That’s what I thought was the core of the American Law.

If the officers involved had could reasonably believe that they posed an immediate lethal threat at the time, yes it does. Whether or not that was the case is for courts to figure out after things calm down and all facts have been gathered and not a valid reason to call for the shut down of entire agencies with the intent of stopping enforcement of laws you don't like.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#227

Post by account42 »

doctoboggan wrote: post #5

Hopefully this is a wakeup call to the software engineers and other employees at those companies - it's no longer a hypothetical future where the tools you are building might be abused, it's today.

If you need to wait until the tools you build are being used for things you disagree with before seeing the problem with building those tools then you have already failed.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#228

Post by account42 »

lukan wrote: post #207
dns_snek wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because employees are making the actual thing that inflicts harm while consumers' actions are completely diffused and many steps removed from the harm they cause. That's why ad-tech is so effective in the first place. Consumer pays $1.10 for a can of coke, $0.10 of that goes to ad-tech, the consumer watches some coke ads, ad-tech pays $0.05 to the publisher and the consumer receives $0.05 in benefits in the form o…

"The only way for consumers to avoid this " Or they could stop drinking coke? But I guess that is too much to ask.

That's what gp said, except Coke isn't the only thing that funds the advertising industry - it's pretty much every product you can buy.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#229

Post by account42 »

ljm wrote: post #223
Diti wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the sorry state the software industry is currently in, I’m not surprised that developers would sell their soul in exchange for the peace of mind of being able to pay rent and food. Working for those companies does not make people “do what they can to support racist agendas”.

Perhaps to show the level of privilege I enjoy as a software engineer with some level of seniority, I have had zero problem resigning from a position (more than once in fact) because I objected to something my employer was doing. It's been enough for me to filter potential opportunities exclusively to tech-for-good concerns. Sure, I don't earn half a million a year total comp to kiss some billionaire's ass, but I sti…

Yeah, software is perhaps one of the industries where the "I got bills to pay" argument is the least justifiable. If your lifestyle can only be sustained by working for unethical companies then your lifestyle is unethical. You certainly don't need to sell your soul to FAANG to live a comfortable and happy life.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#230

Post by account42 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #96
testfrequency wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose the most absolute and extreme predicament possible to cast your “money is money” belief. You do realize this is what most criminals of the world just so happen to say as well, right? Where is the line?

There's nothing extreme in what I said, it is actually how the world we live in works. It's an extremely unfair system based on coercion - you are beaten down into submission by the implicit threat that without work you won't be able to make ends meet. Maybe you have a family that can support you financially. Maybe you already own the place where you live and could save up money over an extended period that you can w…

Absolutely no one with the skills to work in the software industry is in a position where working for unethical mega-corporations or literally starving are their only options.
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