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Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

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Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#221

Post by joefarish »

sowbug wrote: post #190
dlg wrote: post #153

I was just dropping my kids off at their elementary school in Santa Monica, but not at Grant Elementary where this happened. While it's third-hand, word on the local parent chat is that the parent dropped their kid off on the opposite side of the street from Grant. Even though there was a crossing guard, the kid ran behind a car an ran right out in to the street. If those rumors are correct, I'll say the kid's/family…

When my kids were school age, I taught them that the purpose of crosswalk lines is to determine who pays for your funeral. They got the point.

This is a very good way of putting it.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#222

Post by jsrozner »

aimor wrote: post #150

The school speed limit there is 15 mph, and that wasn't enough to prevent an accident. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/child-struck-waymo-near-... https://maps.app.goo.gl/7PcB2zskuKyYB56W8?g_st=ac

So the waymo was speeding! All the dumbasses on here defending waymo when it was going 17 > 15.

Oh also, that video says "kid ran out from a double parked suv". Can you imagine being dumb enough to drive over the speed limit around a double parked SUV in a school zone?

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#223

Post by blell »

trollbridge wrote: post #200
dlg wrote: post #153

I was just dropping my kids off at their elementary school in Santa Monica, but not at Grant Elementary where this happened. While it's third-hand, word on the local parent chat is that the parent dropped their kid off on the opposite side of the street from Grant. Even though there was a crossing guard, the kid ran behind a car an ran right out in to the street. If those rumors are correct, I'll say the kid's/family…

I do not like the phase "it's the kid's fault" for a kid being hit by a robot-car. It is never a 6 year old's fault if they get struck by a robot.

Exactly. It’s his parents fault.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#224

Post by jefftk »

zdragnar wrote: post #138
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sensible driving, but here in the UK, roads outside schools are complete mayhem at dropping off/picking up times. Speeding, overtaking, wild manoeuvres to turn round etc. When reading the article, my first thought was that only going at 17mph was due to it being a robotaxi whereas UK drivers tend to be strongly opposed to 20mph speed limits outside schools.

Most US states cap speed limits around schools at 15mph when children are present. There may also be blinking lights above these signs during times that will be likely. I'm not sure how much of that Waymo's cars take into account, as the law technically takes into account line of sight things that a person could see but Waymo's sensors might not, such as children present on a sidewalk.

> Most US states cap speed limits around schools at 15mph when children are present.

Are you sure? The ones I've seen have usually been 20 or 25mph.

Looking on Image Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=school+zone+speed+limit+sign) and limiting just to the ones that are photos of real signs by the side of the road, the first 10 are: 25, 30, 25, 20, 35, 15, 20, 55, 20, 20. So only one of these was 15.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#225

Post by sowbug »

jerlam wrote: post #178
trillic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will also never get worse. This is the worst the algorithms from this point forward.

I am not sure. Self-driving is complex and involves the behavior of other, non-automated actors. This is not like a compression algorithm where things are easily testable and verifiable. If Waymos start behaving extra-oddly in school zones, it may lead to other accidents where drivers attempt to go around the "broken" Waymo and crash into it, other pedestrians, or other vehicles. I know Tesla FSD is its own thing, bu…

And we haven't reached the point where people start walking straight into the paths of cars, either obliviously or defiantly. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nVEDebSuEUs

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#226

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

mholt wrote: post #125
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…

The autonomous vehicle should know what it can't know, like children coming out from behind obstructions. Humans have this intuitive sense. Apparently autonomous systems do not, and do not drive carefully, or slower, or give more space, in those situations. Does it know that it's in a school zone? (Hopefully.) Does it know that school is starting or getting out? (Probably not.) Should it? (Absolutely yes.) This is th…

> Humans have this intuitive sense.

Some do, some of the time. I'm always surprised by how much credence other people give to the idea that humans aren't on average very bad at things, including perception.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#227

Post by seanmcdirmid »

trollbridge wrote: post #195
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limit is 20 MPH in Washington state, in California the default is 25 MPH, but is going to 20 MPH soon and can be further lowered to 15 MPH with special considerations. The real killer here is the crazy American on street parking, which limits visibility of both pedestrians and oncoming vehicles. Every school should be a no street parking zone. But parents are going to whine they can't load and unload their kids c…

If it had no parking, then the parents would be parked somewhere else and loading and unloading their kids there, and then that would need to be a no-parking zone too. I guess you could keep doing that until kids just walk to and from school?

Our local school has them unload a block away unless they are handicapped. A kid isn't going to die walking a block. But its pointless because they still allow residential on street parking around the school, and my son has to use a crosswalk where cars routinely park so close to, I had to tell him that the traffic (pretty heavy) on the road wouldn't see him easily, and he should always ease his way into a crosswalk and not assume he would be easily seen.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#228

Post by moomoo11 »

boh wrote: post #204
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…

So the TechCrunch headline should be "Waymo hits child better than a human driver would"? Not sure if the details reflect how the general public actually interprets this story (see the actual TC headline for exhibit A).

The general public is stupid.

That’s why they purchase goods and services (from others) and then cry about things they don’t and probably never will understand.

And why they can be ignored and just fed some slop to feel better.

I could lie but that’s the cold truth.

Edit: I'm not sure if the repliers are being dense (highly likely), or you just skipped over context (you can click the "context" link if you're new here)

> So the TechCrunch headline should be "Waymo hits child better than a human driver would"? Not sure if the details reflect how the general public actually interprets this story (see the actual TC headline for exhibit A).

That is the general public sentiment I was referring to.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#229

Post by recursive »

xnx wrote: post #156
WarmWash wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If waymo is to be believed, they hit the kid at 6mph and estimated that a human driver at full attention would have hit the kid at 14 mph. The waymo was traveling 17mph. The situation of "kid running out between cars" will likley never be solved either, because even with sub nanosecond reaction time, the car's mass and tire's traction physically caps how fast a change in velocity can happen. I don't think we will eve…

Second-order benefit: More Waymos = fewer parked cars

In high parking contention areas, I think there's enough latent demand for parking that you wouldn't observe fewer parked cars until reduce demand by a much greater amount.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#230

Post by ssl-3 »

pmontra wrote: post #103

Who is legally responsible in case a Waymo hits a pedestrian? If I hit somebody, it's me in front of a judge. In the case of Waymo?

When I was a kid (age 12, or so), I got hit by a truck while crossing the road on my bike.

In that particular instance, I was cited myself -- after the fact, at the hospital -- and eventually went before a judge. In that hearing, it was established that I was guilty of failing to yield at an intersection.

(That was a rather long time ago and I don't remember the nature of the punishment that resulted. It may have been as little as a stern talking-to by the judge.)

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