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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#221

Post by Cyph0n »

ako wrote: post #197
joe_mamba wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this case has much to do with the mono party system but with the state taking interest to support a local industry at a loss but for future security. Like for example the French government massively supported its aerospace and nuclear industry, and German government gave massive support to its legacy auto industry and they're not a mono party totalitarian system. So it can be done even in democracies, b…

So bailing out large corporations is a good thing?

Yes, but imo only if it’s done strategically and at a cost: if you want a bailout, you cede an ownership stake in return.

What I mean by the former is we shouldn’t, for example, be bailing out cruise lines.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#222

Post by zmb_ »

abigail95 wrote: post #16
noosphr wrote: post #7

> ASML also announced a new share buyback programme of up to €12 billion, to be executed by 31 December 2028. Oh boy. This fills me with dread. I've never seen a company that starts doing buybacks not become a financialized hollow shell within a decade. Being an irreplaceable monopoly on the commanding heights of the digital economy makes this even worse.

It's a mechanism to distribute profits to shareholders. Do you invest in companies that don't distribute profits - does this get you some kind of higher return?

It’s effectively the company saying that they believe the shareholders can get a better return by investing that money elsewhere. So when a company starts doing major buybacks it’s a signal that they have reached an inflection point.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#223

Post by vachina »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #159
gpvos wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have the possibility for pay increase without taking on management responsibilities.

Once engineering starts out earning them by a wide enough margin management will become insecure. /s I actually am curious why this isn't a more commonplace practice. Why would we build systems that keep accumulating managers at the expense of skilled senior engineers?

Because managers promote managers and managers have vested interest in themselves.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#224

Post by philipallstar »

thrance wrote: post #164
noosphr wrote: post #7

> ASML also announced a new share buyback programme of up to €12 billion, to be executed by 31 December 2028. Oh boy. This fills me with dread. I've never seen a company that starts doing buybacks not become a financialized hollow shell within a decade. Being an irreplaceable monopoly on the commanding heights of the digital economy makes this even worse.

Buybacks should be illegal again. They're like drugs for companies, they can't help but do them and divest capital that would help them thrive and put it into their shareholders' pockets.

Of course they can. Issuing shares and going public is the exact opposite of that and they do that all the time.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#225

Post by zwaps »

flyinglizard wrote: post #133
zwaps wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you are not wrong, many of the cases I observed had managers from all over the world. I think it's just a symptom. As a manager, you contribute nothing by yourself. You are useful if you have a useful team (ICs) with a good project. To have that, you need to defend yourself against other managers who will take this from you. If you then also want to get prompted, your task is also to vacuum in all sorts of soft…

Having ICs with no organization, synchronization or shared vision creates chaos, toxicity and a lot of technical debt. You can easily create negative value. ICs need direction to be successful, and well managed people are much happier in my experience than non-managed people.

Firstly, management and leadership are not the same thing. Giving direction is the job of a leader. Managers, just like anyone else, are rarely good leaders. They are more likely to give the wrong direction and vision than ICs, given that they typically also know less.

IC's do benefit from coordination, as any team might. That is management. However, having more than the absolute minimum of managers and management attached to a product invariably means an exponential decrease in efficiency.

Any team with more managers than senior ICs such as staff engineers is in trouble. That's because staff+ engineers are the people who's ACTUAL job it is to give direction, force multiplication and avoidance of local minima.

Hence, the nature of the position of manager is that it is very often unnecessary, or only intermittently useful. Therefore, a successful manager is not one who makes the product succeed, but rather someone who creates work that they themselves can and need to solve. Typically, this happens when there is a group of managers where there should be only one.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#226

Post by anal_reactor »

joe_mamba wrote: post #134
yomismoaqui wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you want about China's monoparty system, but it enables planning that spans decades. Our 4 years terms is short slighted by design.

I don't think this case has much to do with the mono party system but with the state taking interest to support a local industry at a loss but for future security. Like for example the French government massively supported its aerospace and nuclear industry, and German government gave massive support to its legacy auto industry and they're not a mono party totalitarian system. So it can be done even in democracies, b…

It's easy to blame the welfare state but IMO the problem is the general culture of being extremely risk-averse beyond reason. Same reason why big US companies lose the ability to innovate. Europeans just hate doing things the new way even if it's better.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#227

Post by themafia »

aurareturn wrote: post #201
themafia wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US can't make these machines. The US is pretty dynamic. So is every country. To the extent it appears not to be there is usually some entity with it's thumb on the scale.

Who is going to recreate EUV machines faster ASML partnering with China or US recreating ASML machines?

Eminent domain can apply to intellectual property. There is even plenty of US precedent for this in nearly the same circumstances. Then again their need for defensible IP is precisely why ASML would almost certainly never make the partnership you suggest.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#228

Post by retired »

cbolton wrote: post #214
Freak_NL wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job. They are quite conditional: you must be applying for a new job while receiving them, and after the first six months any job you can do is eligible (not just the jobs you would want to do). You must report your job applications to the unemployment agency, and you can get called in and cut off from benefits for not earnestly seeking a job.

I'm curious how that works in the extreme... Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?

I doubt that you will end up in the red light district but it’s possible that a middle management position will end up in an Amazon distribution center as an order picker or has to harvest strawberries.

Not that bad and you might learn some Polish or Romanian while doing those jobs as you will likely be the only Dutch person there.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#229

Post by gpvos »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #161
gpvos wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IC = individual contributor. Wikipedia translating management speak: > Individual contributor, a business role for an employee without management responsibilities

Thank you, I was lost reading the comments. Funny that all the comments shitting on managers are speaking their language.

I am actually abhorred by the word "individual" as part of IC (which I luckily hadn't encountered before, so I had to look it up). It appears very pejorative to me, as if all cooperation goes via the management instead of directly between team members.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#230

Post by zwaps »

Wurdan wrote: post #217
kaon_2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Phillips and ASML share the same regional and cultural heritage. Many ASML employees will have first-hand experience of Phillips' downfall. They certainly do not want to repeat that mistake.

As an engineering manager (and one who's slowly starting a job hunt) these comments don't make for comfortable reading. What we'll never know from a press release like this is whether this is a change that employees wanted, or one which senior leadership wanted. Sure there are companies where management is overly bloated or inefficient. And maybe I'm just flattering myself by thinking that my teams' lives wouldn't be…

They indicate that this is something engineers want. Further, half of the 3000 with transition back to engineering, indicating that they think they will be more valuable as engineers.

Middle management has this self-replicating dynamic of becoming bloated and inefficient. Most companies probably do not have good middle management, because they have too much of it.

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