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Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

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Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#221
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'm not using it with my company/enterprise account for that reason. But for my private sub, it's worth the tradeoff/risk. Ethically I see no issue at all, because those LLMs are trained on who knows what. But you can use pi with z.ai or any of the other cheap Claude-distilled providers for a couple bucks per month. Just calculate the risk that your data might be sold I guess?

Really curious, what paragraph of the ToS is being violated?

Look it up. They have banned people over this and it was all over the news, some people cancelling their accounts etc

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#223
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legitimate, but its also extremely powerful and people tend to run it in very insecure ways or ways where their computer is wiped. Numerous examples and stories on X. I used it for a bit, but it burned through tokens (even after the token fix) and it uses tokens for stuff that could be handled by if/then statements and APIs without burning a ton of tokens. But it's a very neat and imperfect glimpse at the future…

> It's legitimate How do you know? > it burned through tokens (even after the token fix) and it uses tokens for stuff that could be handled by if/then statements and APIs without burning a ton of tokens. Sponsored by the token seller, perhaps?

> How do you know?

I looked at the code and have followed Peter, it's developer, for a long time and he has a good reputation?

> Sponsored by the token seller, perhaps?

I don't know what this means. Peter wasn't sponsored at the time, but he may or may not have some sort of arrangement with Minimax now. I have no clue.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parody defense typically relies on there being an underlying comment about the brand or product. Commercial use with no clear speech purpose will not be looked on favorably by a court. Copying someone’s brand isn’t a parody by the court’s Rogers test which will be applied in this case to determine if it is a legal parody. The Rogers test: > First, the Court must determine whether the work at issue is “expressive” — t…

The latest I can find on Bad Spaniels is that the courts concluded they did not infringe the trademark exactly because it was an obvious parody, but that it tarnished the brand because of the association with dog feces[0]. Notably, it seems that brand confusion is still central to the infringement question, and SCOTUS ruled that parody plays into that. > Reaching the Supreme Court, the case took another turn in 2023…

You misinterpreted the outcome of that case. The ninth circuit ruling was in favor of VIP. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling and said the lower court needed to discard the rogers test as exculpatory for VIP/BS.

I’ll use a direct quote from your own source to explain how the actual ruling ended up losing the case for BS:

…the district court found that it nevertheless dilutes the fame and distinctiveness of the whiskey maker’s reputation, thereby still running afoul of the Lanham Act’s anti-dilution provisions. The amended order follows the Supreme Court’s decision ending the application of the more liberal Rogers First Amendment test in trademark cases involving expressive works used as source identifiers. In doing so, while finding that the parody of the “Bad Spaniels” dog toy decreased the likelihood of confusion with Jack Daniel’s by modifying the analysis of certain factors in a light more favorable to VIP, the district court ultimately found VIP’s parody of the famous whiskey brand to be a double-edged sword that contributed to finding dilution by tarnishment. /quote

The Supreme Court case said that because they were using a trademark as a brand identifier they couldn’t argue for a rogers test exemption. In other words if you use someone else’s trademark, even as a riff or joke, in your trademark, the bar is much higher. L’Eggo my Eggroll is doing exactly that.

Your argument that “In the food truck case, clearly they are using it as their own brand identifier (so it's analogous to Bad Spaniels)” perfectly encapsulates why this is a violation once you grok the outcome of the court case. Bravo for phrasing it so succinctly.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#225
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This tone is unnecessary, unhelpful and against the spirit and rules of the site. It also doesn’t advance the conversation. If you disagree, that’s fine, but refrain from using invalid techniques like ad hominem attacks and straw men arguments. Edit: looked at your comment history and realized I’m not going to get anywhere with this. This is just how you behave when presented with information.

Rules of this site also ask for argumentation that goes beyond "someone sued so they must be right".

You made a claim of trademark infringement when in reality no such thing was actually proven. You just automatically assumed the big corp was right based on something that even the lawyers don't yet agree on. I'm sorry if me calling you out on your bullshit makes you angry to the point where you felt the need to sift through my posts for a personal attack.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#226
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Law you heard about"??? Dude, how ignorant are you? Even in engineering school we were taught about trademark law and such.

If you were taught that law you were also taught that every use of a given word doesn't immediately mean infringement if it doesn't present a danger of confusion.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest I can find on Bad Spaniels is that the courts concluded they did not infringe the trademark exactly because it was an obvious parody, but that it tarnished the brand because of the association with dog feces[0]. Notably, it seems that brand confusion is still central to the infringement question, and SCOTUS ruled that parody plays into that. > Reaching the Supreme Court, the case took another turn in 2023…

You misinterpreted the outcome of that case. The ninth circuit ruling was in favor of VIP. The Supreme Court overturned that ruling and said the lower court needed to discard the rogers test as exculpatory for VIP/BS. I’ll use a direct quote from your own source to explain how the actual ruling ended up losing the case for BS: …the district court found that it nevertheless dilutes the fame and distinctiveness of the…

But it's not tarnishment. In the BS case, they found that it wasn't infringement, but that they were using it in a way that would cause reputational damage (also dubious, but sure). Here it would seem the claim that it causes reputational damage is even more tenuous; the food truck is not portraying them in any kind of negative light. In fact, an even better fit is likely the Chewy Vuitton toys[0]:

> While it is true that finding a mark to be strong and famous usually favors the plaintiff in a trademark infringement case, the opposite may be true when a legitimate claim of parody is involved. As the district court observed, "In cases of parody, a strong mark’s fame and popularity is precisely the mechanism by which likelihood of confusion is avoided."

> In a similar vein, when considering factors (v) and (vi), it becomes apparent that Haute Diggity Dog intentionally associated its marks, but only partially and certainly imperfectly, so as to convey the simultaneous message that it was not in fact a source of LVM products. Rather, as a parody, it separated itself from the LVM marks in order to make fun of them.

In the BS case, SCOTUS explicitly noted that parody is a factor in determining confusion and therefore infringement[1]:

> But a trademark’s expressive message—particularly a parodic one, as VIP asserts—may properly figure in assessing the likelihood of confusion ... So although VIP’s effort to ridicule Jack Daniel’s does not justify use of the Rogers test, it may make a difference in the standard trademark analysis. Consistent with our ordinary practice, we remand that issue to the courts below.

And then the ultimate conclusion was that it was not infringement. SCOTUS ruled the lower court had taken an incorrect shortcut, but ultimately the answer (on the infringement question) was the same for basically the same reason.

[0] https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/062267.P.pdf

[1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-148_3e04.pdf

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#228
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny story but the taste scores don’t look to great. Do you like it?

It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style. It’s my friends favorite rotator but I think it’s a decent try-it-once beer, that is only around for a little while at a time. The brewery itself though is one of my favorites to this day with, in my opinion, the best food I've ever encountered at something that identifies itself first as a "brewery." I don't visit the area without making a stop…

> It’s one of those types you have to be the person that likes that style

Yes.

I live in a community that has a very high population of home brewers (beer and spirits mostly). Many of them are needy and use strict techniques (their breweries remind me of the Winnebago meth lab in Breaking Bad) making very good beer and gin.

When we have our local competition of brewers the winner is always some thing like "Belgian Sour". To me a beer that is foul. But to the experienced brewers it is the best.

"Likes that style" covers a huge range with beer.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#229
post #145
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The silly part is buying a $600 Mac mini when any $100 NUC or $50 raspberry pi or any cheap mini PC off of eBay will do the job exactly the same.

The silly part is buying a $50 raspberry pi, then storage and memory and so on, when a $200 used M1 Mac mini is plug-and-play.

$40 used ThinkCentre Tiny is also plug and play! Or Dell Optiplex Micro, practically the same thing.

Re: Clawdbot Renames to Moltbot

#230
post #6

something about giving full read write access to every file on my PC and internet message interface just rubs me the wrong way. some unscrupulous actors are probably chomping at the bit looking for vulnerabilities to get carte blanche unrestricted access. be safe out there kiddos

Exactly my thoughts. I'll let the hype dust settle before even considering installing this "mold" thing
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