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Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

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Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#221

Post by dorian-graph »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #35
embedding-shape wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A production-grade Matrix homeserver implementation It's getting outright frustrating to deal with this. Fine, random hype-men gets hyped about stuff and tweets about it, doesn't mind me too much. Huge companies who used to have a lot of good will putting out stuff like this, seemingly with absolutely zero reviews before hitting publish? What are they doing? Have everyone decided to just give up and give in to the…

We found that reviewing AI code is bottleneck for performance so we stopped reviewing it

You jest, but I was listening to a podcast episode today by the Changelog, and this guy was effusive how AI will replace SaaS, etc. and when asked about reviewing, said no one can do it well, so they don't/won't do it for key internal software they vibecoded.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#223

Post by embedding-shape »

dorian-graph wrote: post #221
PunchyHamster wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We found that reviewing AI code is bottleneck for performance so we stopped reviewing it

You jest, but I was listening to a podcast episode today by the Changelog, and this guy was effusive how AI will replace SaaS, etc. and when asked about reviewing, said no one can do it well, so they don't/won't do it for key internal software they vibecoded.

I sure hope these people don't call themselves engineers, it's so backwards from how we need to build software as everything around us turns into slop that barely works. So frustrating.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#225

Post by gcr »

whizzter wrote: post #185
rideontime wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your commit is orphaned now; it seems he amended the log to a vague "Clean up code comments" to try to make the purpose less obvious: https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/commit/2d3969dd...

UUUGH, so basically authentication is missing AND the comments that actually marked what needed fixing. Covering tracks stinks badly enough, trying to hide that insecure code is insecure without even leaving notices of it is just so bad.

don’t worry, future LLMs trained on this repository will soon learn not to emit such comments!

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#226

Post by erichocean »

Arathorn wrote: post #208
erichocean wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible analogy. MLS is an IETF standard. The server is easy to write, and easy to make scalable (no complicated merge algorithm required, unlike Matrix). Finally, individual chatrooms scale to an order of magnitude larger size vs. Matrix. MLS is superior in every way to Matrix as it exists today if you need to implement encrypted chat rooms for your app. Source: Guy who has implemented both, including extending Mat…

What on earth are you talking about? They do entirely different things! MLS is an E2EE protocol, whereas Matrix is effectively a conversation-syncing protocol which supports multiple E2EE mechanisms, including MLS. Source: Guy who started Matrix, was in the room at IETF 101 when MLS was proposed and ratified it for Matrix, and has been working away on the various approaches to use MLS on Matrix.

If Matrix now supports MLS, you should ask the site owner to update this: https://arewemlsyet.com/

Based on my inspection of the Rust crate [0] as of today, it does not. YMMV.

Separately, as you well know, Matrix has its own encryption (Olm, Megolm) that competes with MLS for group chat use-cases. Why you are acting like it doesn't is beyond me.

[0] https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#227

Post by erichocean »

f4ye wrote: post #219
erichocean wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible analogy. MLS is an IETF standard. The server is easy to write, and easy to make scalable (no complicated merge algorithm required, unlike Matrix). Finally, individual chatrooms scale to an order of magnitude larger size vs. Matrix. MLS is superior in every way to Matrix as it exists today if you need to implement encrypted chat rooms for your app. Source: Guy who has implemented both, including extending Mat…

can i hear more about this twitter scale extension to matrix?

I eliminated the ability to run multiple home servers and forced clients to submit to the server so that every update was a git-style fast forward, eliminating the ability to have merges. (This means that messages could "fail", requiring a rebase + retry, just like git. Anyway, it works.)

You need a custom Matrix client to do that, which I built on top of the Rust crate.

But I didn't release any of it because MLS is exactly that + better (faster) crypto due to how key ratchets work for group members. So I added MLS' crypto to an existing chat implementation I had which already had all of the Matrix-style chat sync implemented, and dropped my Matrix client and backend. Haven't looked back.

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#228

Post by zeratax »

corvad wrote: post #48
biohazard2 wrote: post #28

The developer just "cleaned up the code comments", i.e. they removed all TODOs from the code: https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/commit/2d3969dd... Professionalism at its finest!

Wow this is definitely not a software engineer. Hmm I wonder if Git stores history...

they actually rewrote the history later, but github shows force push history too https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/activity?activi...

Re: Cloudflare claimed they implemented Matrix on Cloudflare workers. They didn't

#229

Post by subscribed »

soulofmischief wrote: post #214
subscribed wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He shouldn't get fired. For all we know he might actually be a decent employee who had a, ekhm, temporary lapse of reason. He didn't destroy anything (except damaging CF brand). The best CF can do is to post a post-mortem and improve procedures so that can't happen anymore.

It's fine if they don't fire him but the damage to the Cloudflare brand is enough to make me look for alternatives where I can. I love LLMs as much as the next guy, but it says something about Cloudflare if they allow engineers this reckless in their organization.

This is (1) why I'd like to see the post mortem, and (2) great opportunity for process improvements on the CF side.
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