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Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

windowscentral.com

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Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#221

Post by TZubiri »

Zak wrote: post #140

The headline is misleading. It says that Microsoft will provide the key if asked , but the linked statement to Forbes says Microsoft will provide the key if it receives a valid legal order . These have different meanings. Microsoft is legally entitled to refuse a request from law enforcement, and subject to criminal penalties if it refuses a valid legal order. It does illustrate a significant vulnerability in that Mi…

The latter is not news, it's the way it has been for quite some time, not just for IT providers, but for businesses in general.

If you are running any kind of service, you should learn how warrants work in the country you are hosting in, come the time, if your service grows, eventually you will have to comply with an order.

If you want anything else you will have to design your system such that you can't even see the data, ala Telegram. And even then, you will get into pretty murky waters.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#222

Post by pregnenolone »

hinkley wrote: post #219
pregnenolone wrote: post #216

I’m not trying to defend Microsoft, but I think people are being a bit dramatic. It's a fairly reasonable default setting for average users who simply want their data protected from theft. On the other hand, users should be able to opt out from the outset, and above all, without having to fiddle with the manage-bde CLI or group policy settings. With Intel Panther Lake (I'm not sure about AMD), Bitlocker will be entir…

If you don’t think Intel put back doors into that then I fear for the future.

> If you don’t think Intel put back doors into that then I fear for the future.

If that’s what you’re worried about, you shouldn’t be using computers at all. I can pretty much guarantee that Linux will adopt SoC based hardware acceleration because the benefits – both in performance and security – outweigh the theoretical risks.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#223

Post by JasonADrury »

jeroenhd wrote: post #198
JasonADrury wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is just not having FDE on by default, it really isn't "require utterly clueless non-technical users to go through complicated opt-in procedure for backups to avoid losing all their data when they forget their password". And AFAICT, they do ask, even if the flow is clearly designed to get the user to back up their keys online.

Phones have had FDE enabled by default for years. Nobody needs backup keys for those. Of course this feature comes at the cost of no longer being able to have low level control over your device, but this isn't a binary choice.

>Phones have had FDE enabled by default for years. Nobody needs backup keys for those.

Yes, phones just try to back up all of your data online.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#224

Post by hinkley »

pregnenolone wrote: post #222
hinkley wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t think Intel put back doors into that then I fear for the future.

> If you don’t think Intel put back doors into that then I fear for the future. If that’s what you’re worried about, you shouldn’t be using computers at all. I can pretty much guarantee that Linux will adopt SoC based hardware acceleration because the benefits – both in performance and security – outweigh the theoretical risks.

They resisted hardware RNG when it first was introduced.

Brian Cantrill is trying to end this nonsense but we shall see if they end up being the lone voice or not.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#225

Post by hsuduebc2 »

_blk wrote: post #22
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Being again and again surprised that corporations will defend you for literally no reason is kinda delusional.

A Proton model makes this very simple: full cooperation and handover and virtually nothing to be extracted from the data. Size is somewhat of a metadata, ip connection points and maybe date of first use and when data changes occurred... I'm all for law enforcement, but that job has to be old-school Proof of Work bound and not using blanket data collection and automated speeding ticket mailer. But I guess it's not don…

This is quite elegant solution.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#226

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

orbital-decay wrote: post #96
caseysoftware wrote: post #72

Due to Third Party Doctrine, Microsoft doesn't even NEED a "legal order." It's merely a courtesy which they could change at any time. Based on the sheer number of third parties we're required to use for our day to day lives, that is ridiculous and Third Party Doctrine should be eliminated. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

>people who voluntarily give information to third parties Is it the case with BitLocker? The voluntary part.

Sure. You voluntarily use windows. You could use something else or nothing so you chose to use it. You are not compelled to use it by law. You are just strongly compelled by a small carrot and a large stick. The same applies to a smart phone BTW.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#227

Post by Retric »

Zak wrote: post #214
Retric wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve overly simplified the degree to which a company must accept a court order without pushback. First they are capable of fulfilling the request in the first place which means their approach or encryption is inherently flawed. Second companies can very much push back on such requests with many examples of such working, but they need to make the attempt.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect businesses to spend money fighting court orders for customer data, especially if the orders are more or less reasonable. They do seem to be reasonable in the case that brought about this reporting, with substantial evidence that the suspects committed fraud and that evidence is on the devices in question.

Never means the specifics are irrelevant, you’re making the sad argument on the worst possible case and the best one.

So why should customers entrust their data to the company? It’s a transactional relationship and the less you do the less reason someone has to pay you.

Further, our legal system is adversarial it assumes someone is going to defend you. Without that there’s effectively zero protection for individuals.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#228

Post by Forgeties79 »

gosub100 wrote: post #218
Forgeties79 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The headline is misleading. It says that Microsoft will provide the key if asked , but the linked statement to Forbes says Microsoft will provide the key if it receives a valid legal order . This is an odd thing to split hairs over IMO. Warrants or subpoenas or just asking nicely, whatever bar you want to set, is a secondary concern. The main issue is they can and will hand the keys to LEO’s at all.

I hate MS as much as anyone else, but I don't have a problem with them doing this. Legally they have to comply if they have evidence in a legal action. Maybe they are at fault for not solely relying on the TPM, or not giving users informed consent about using the cloud, but I cannot fault them for not going to battle for civil liberties when they can't even implement notepad without screwing it up.

You absolutely can and should fault them. This is a choice they made.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#229

Post by MereInterest »

morshu9001 wrote: post #153
fc417fc802 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Security aficionados pushing non-recoverable traps on people are plain disconnected from reality. To be fair, if you inadvertently get locked out of your Google account "tough luck, should have used a different provider" and Gmail is a household name so ... Less snarky, I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with key escrow (either as a recovery avenue or otherwise) so long as it's opt in and the tradeoffs a…

Google has a pretty robust recovery process. Of course if you've given them absolutely nothing about them then forgotten your password, it's tough.

Google will lock you out of an account even if you remember your password. This happened to me, when Google decided to use the recovery email address for 2FA, locking me out of my primary account. And the exact same change was made to my recovery account, at the same time. As for the recovery email of my recovery emails address, it was with a company that hadn't existed for over a decade, and no longer existed.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#230

Post by ViktorRay »

blackcatsec wrote: post #212
ViktorRay wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be forgetting the time the Obama administration asked Apple to unlock a suspect’s iPhone and Apple refused.

That was before Tim Cook presented Donald Trump with a gold and glass plaque along with a Mac Pro. We live in far different times these days. I have no doubt in my mind that Apple is complying 100% with every LE request coming their way (not only because of the above gesture, but because it's actually the law)

Apple’s lawyers were able to resist the Obama administration’s pressure.

American presidents are not dictators. The system has checks and balances and the courts decide. It doesn’t matter who the president is.

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