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Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

eieio.games

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Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#221
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah no. Nobody is running TCP on that link, let alone SSH.

In aerial robotics, 900MHz telemetry links (like Microhard) are standard. And running SSH over them is common practice I guess.

Why do you guess? I wouldn't expect SSH to be used on a telemetry link. Nor TCP, and probably not IP either.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#222
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow old here, I had several 56k baud modems but even my USR (the best of the bunch) never got more than half way to 56k throughput. Took forever to download shit over BBS...

> several 56k baud modems These were almost definitely 8k baud.

Yeah I got baud and bit rates confused. I also don't recall any hayes commands anymore either...

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've used links with modems rocking 1200 bps Yo, 300 baud, checking in. Do I hear 110? +++ATH0

Ah, the good old days. I remember dialing up local BBSes with QMODEM. AT&C1&D2S36=7DT*70,,,5551212

PoiZoN BBS Sysop chiming in. I ran the BBS on a free phone line I found in my childhood bedroom. I alerted the phone company and a tech spent a day trying to untangle it, but gave up at the end of his shift. He even stopped by to tell me it wouldn’t be fixed.

I didn’t know the phone number, so I bought a Caller ID box, hooked it to my home line, and phoned home. It wasn’t long before every BBS in town had a listing for it.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't rubber duck debugging. It's just talking to someone about the problem. The entire point of rubber duck debugging is that the other side literally cannot respond - it's an inanimate object, or even a literal duck/animal.

Oh it can definitely be a person. I've worked with a few!

Cue obligatory Ralph Fiennes "You're an inanimate fucking object".

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#225
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I missed that thread originally, the post and the comments where a good read, thank you for sharing. I got a kick out of this comment [0]. "BenjiWiebe" made a comment about the SSH packets you stumbled across in that thread. Obviously making the connection between what you were seeing in your game and this random off-hand comment would be insane (if you had seen the comment at all), but I got a smile out of it. [0] h…

wow, I missed that comment, that's an incredible connection. Thank you!

First time I've been reading on HN and come across my name randomly.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#227
post #206

Or you could use anycasting to terminate SSH sessions on the moral equivalent of one of a number of geography based reverse proxies and then forward the packet over an internal network to the app server over a link tuned for low latency. The big guys already do something similar with HTTP over TLS for DDoS protection and to limit end to end latency on TLS. Granted... it would increase the cost (since you're adding re…

> Or you could use anycasting to terminate SSH sessions on the moral equivalent of one of a number of geography based reverse proxies and then forward the packet over an internal network to the app server over a link tuned for low latency. I've been thinking about some stuff like this! Not being able to put my game behind Cloudflare[1] is a bummer. Substantial architectural overhead though. > The idea of letting Clau…

Nice, but shouldn't the behaviour change be behind a config setting? And it's not clear what the intent of the change is. Implementing PING/PONG seems different from what you said you were trying to do. And it's section 1.8 of the OpenSSH [PROTOCOL] reference, not section 1.9.

But... before you think I'm trying to be negative... good on you. I wish you well. Getting crypto/security code into open source projects can be a slog as people frequently come out of the woodwork, so don't get discouraged.

And the more I think about this... there's plenty of examples out there about doing HTTP based reverse proxying, but essentially zero for SSH proxying, so if you do that, it would make a great blog post.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the good old days. I remember dialing up local BBSes with QMODEM. AT&C1&D2S36=7DT*70,,,5551212

PoiZoN BBS Sysop chiming in. I ran the BBS on a free phone line I found in my childhood bedroom. I alerted the phone company and a tech spent a day trying to untangle it, but gave up at the end of his shift. He even stopped by to tell me it wouldn’t be fixed. I didn’t know the phone number, so I bought a Caller ID box, hooked it to my home line, and phoned home. It wasn’t long before every BBS in town had a listing f…

Man that tech was cool and did you a solid.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#229
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately with SSH specifically, the dissectors aren't very mature - you only get valid parsing up to the KeX completion messages (NEWKEYS), and after that, even if the encryption is set to `none` via custom patches, the rest of the message flow is not parsed. Seems because dumping the session keys is not at all a common thing. It's just a matter of effort though - if someone put in the time to improve the SSH st…

Interesting, I thought it was possible to decrypt SSH in Wireshark a la TLS, but it seems I'm mistaken. It still would have been my first goto, likely with encryption patched out as you stated. With well documented protocols, it's generally not too difficult deciphering the raw interior bits as needed with the orientation provided by the dissected pieces. So let me revise my statement: this probably would have been a…

It all depends on the key exchange mechanism (KEM) used at the start of the TLS session. Some KEM have a property called “perfect forward secrecy” (PFS) which means it’s not possible to decrypt the TLS session after the fact unless one of the nodes logs out the session key(s). Diffie Helman and ECDH are two KEM that provide a PFS guarantee.

Re: Why does SSH send 100 packets per keystroke?

#230
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah no. Nobody is running TCP on that link, let alone SSH.

Once upon a time I worked on a project where we SSH'd into a satellite for debugging and updates via your standard electronics hobbiest-tier 915mhz radio. Performance was not great but it worked and was cheap.

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