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The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

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Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#221

Post by leosarev »

neutronicus wrote: post #49
yurishimo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who wants to collaborate internationally is already doing it. Science in the US is entirely metric. Construction and domestic measurements are the two biggest holdouts and honestly they’re both negligible. Given the proliferation of global manufacturing, most businesses are converting at the end before retail for US customers. If the government was competent, they could rip off the bandaid and everyone would…

Construction is negligible? I guess you imagine we’ll all be calling half inch pipe twelve seven after this year adjustment period? I guess people do it with bullet calibers.

Ironically, a lot of countries with metric system calling half inch pipe a "1/2" :-)

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#222

Post by webnrrd2k »

vondur wrote: post #152

It’s a bit odd in the U.S. because we use a mix of units, largely due to industries that combine metric and imperial systems. Most people are familiar with metric volume since so many drinks are sold in 1 and 2 liter bottles, and medications are typically measured in milligrams. Lengths and weights are more of a mixed bag. Many track and field events use metric units now, though longer distances are still measured in…

Speaking of mixed units, don't forget the alwys fun distinction of avoirdupois pound vs troy pound...

People sometimes ask "what's heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?", the implication is that you're stupid for for asking a dumb question. The technically correct answer is that the pound of feathers is heavier. The expected answer is usually that they're the same weight, because there is no difference in weight between the two things that both weigh a pound. The problem is that, in the USA, a pound of feathers is measured with the avoirdupois pound, while a pound of gold is measured in troy pounds. The troy pound is lighter than the avoirdupois pound, so the answer is that a pound of feathers is heavier.

While a troy ounce is heavier than the avoirdupois ounce, and the grain unit is equal in both. So, depending on whether you ask for a pound/ounce/grain, the answer can change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_weight

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#223

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

nayuki wrote: post #173
ericmay wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, we went over the Metric System that whole year. I can still sing the "Metric Family" song from the film on metric units ("Kilo", "Milli", etc.). And to my young an impressionable mind, the U.S. was joining the rest of the world "Free World" in a kind of Star-Trek-like casting aside of the old things that divided us—joining each other with a focus on progress, science, space… I’ve always found this peculiar be…

> I find the imperial system fits in better with that warmth of humanity Right, so you enjoy warmth such as: 1 foot = 12 inches, 1 stone = 14 pounds, 1 pound = 16 ounces. Lots of useless names and numbers to memorize compared to kilo = 1000, milli = 0.001. > in favor of cultural uniqueness and fun over conformity You're writing in impeccable English. As we know, English is an international language and most definitel…

I enjoy the warmth of the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second, or as me and my friends call it: a Meter.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#224

Post by justincormack »

kakacik wrote: post #142
gonzalohm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. As an European living in the US. The only US units that I find useful are cups, teaspoons and tablespoons. And that's only for cooking. It's way faster to measure volume than weight (although less accurate)

Those are not US measures, we use them in Europe as well

They are different sizes to the American ones.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#225

Post by mturmon »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #77

"Back when I was a Catholic-school kid in northern Wisconsin, my school lessons briefly focused on the metric system. This was in the late 1970s." Man, the progressive school (Comanche Elementary in Overland Park, Kansas!) must have had a huge impact on my life. In addition to open classrooms (I was in Unit 5, not 4th Grade), team teaching, a focus on experimental science, a circular layout to the school with a sunke…

Katherine Carpenter Elementary, OP, KS for me, in the same era -- just a couple miles from your school.

I share some of the same disappointment, especially going back and noticing disinvestment in the schools, which were one of the gems of the area.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#226

Post by pibaker »

ericmay wrote: post #166
technothrasher wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the useful scale of Fahrenheit is far superior 0-100 versus 0-32. Well, first of all, I'm not sure why you're defining those scales as the "useful" ones. They don't even equate to each other. But why are you arbitrarily using 100 as the end of your Fahrenheit scale? Just so you can declare it 'Metric-y'? If you read his paper, Fahrenheit's scale is actually 0-96.

Well even 0-96 would be better, but I think 0-100 scales are more useful. Temperatures in most places are within those bounds and it's like a test you are graded on. You get a 0 on the test, that's really cold. You get a 100 - smoking hot. I'm not 100% sure of the normal upper/lower bounds in everyday life for most people on the planet for Celsius, but let's say it's 0-32. It' just feels weird to me to be operating o…

Do you think the overwhelming majority of human kinds find it weird that 30 degrees is hot and 15 degrees is comfortable? (Hint: they probably find it weird that water does not freeze at "zero")

You are entitled to your subjective experience, but keep in mind other subjective experiences exist.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#228

Post by fluorinerocket »

sevensor wrote: post #69
alkonaut wrote: post #47

Having converted science, manufacturing etc, what's the first (or next) true consumer facing thing that could change?

> manufacturing This is sadly far from the truth. Manufacturing is nowhere near metric conversion. Horsepower, foot-pounds, and my all time least favorite unit, the mil, are everywhere. And relatedly, manufacturing execution systems that use localtime internally cause all manner of hilarity twice a year. It’s like we’re just deliberately trying to be bad at measuring things.

The rocket company I worked at designed their orbital rocket in inches and lbm. Engine flow rates in lbm/s, temperatures in deg Rankine, thrust in lbf. Btu/hour/inch^2/degR heat transfer coefficients.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#229

Post by ghaff »

Ekaros wrote: post #139
sfn42 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need decimals. Nobody who uses celsius gives a shit about the decimals. It's -4 or it's -5 and even that distinction is irrelevant. Unless you're doing some kind of scientific calculaton there's no need to think about decimals of celsius at all. Just like Fahrenheit users surely don't care whether it's 50 or 53 or whatever. It's around 50, that's all you need to know.

Only place I could imagine something is cooking and even there I probably would not be able to differentiate steak at 56C, 57C and 58C...

For sous vide, I will differentiate by 1 or 2 Fahrenheit degrees but I take your basic point.

Re: The super-slow conversion of the U.S. to metric (2025)

#230

Post by nayuki »

briffle wrote: post #190
AlotOfReading wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in construction, feet/inches/yards kinda sucks. 1:10 scale drawings are painful to do manually, division by 2 is a bit erratic, and bolt sizing is a horrible mess. Metric bolts are nice and consistent. With you on temperature though.

My wife was a surveyor in a past carreer. We have a tape measure in the garage that measures to the nearest hundredth of a foot. It is just so weird to see. Forcing decimal on a measurement that does not normally have it just makes me uncomfortable. https://surveysupplyinc.com/lufkin-12-foot-hi-viz-engineers-...

The tension that you experienced is common in imperial and traditional systems of units. Here's another example for you: Carpenters working with wood use mixed feet, inches, and fractional inches (like 2' 5 3/8"), but machinists working with metal use exclusively decimal inches (like 29.375"). Both hold steadfast to their traditions and won't consider adopting the other system.

If you take a look at American grocery stores, you'll see things like: “40 × 16.9 FL OZ (1.05 PT) 500 mL BOTTLES / NET 676 FL OZ (5.28 GAL) 20 L” https://www.instacart.com/assets/domains/product-image/file/...

To dissect that product: It's a pack of 40× 500 mL of bottled water. I have zero problems with the metric labeling. But for the US customary units, you can see a jumble: decimal fluid ounces, decimal pints, a large number of fluid ounces, and decimal gallons. Note that the gallons can be broken down into mixed units (and some packaging does that); 676 fl oz = 5 gal 1 qt (0 pt) (0 cup) 4 fl oz exactly. The US units are basically "whatever I feel like using" (don't forget tsp and tbsp, which aren't used in the current example). The metric units for liquid consumer products are always mL and L, which greatly simplifies learning and comparison for the consumer.

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