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Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

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Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#221

Post by pjmlp »

bitwize wrote: post #127

Eric S. Raymond wrote the same erotic fanfic a few years back just before his blog went kaputski ( http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8764 ). It won't happen, because the NT kernel is a massive improvement in architecture over Linux or any conventional Unix—and Microsoft has proven, with WSL1 and 2, that they can achieve Linux compatibility while still basing everything on the NT kernel. Switching the Windows ecosystem to the…

Pluton is already required on CoPilot+ PC branded devices.

Those ARM laptops that people are wishing there were more to chose from.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#222

Post by rdsubhas »

B2C Windows has no growth for year after earnings reports. No growth == It's already Dead. It's now hanging on as slightly useful guinea pigs for B2B.

There is no point trying to actively compete in a market for guinea pigs. MS has tried going down the ladder (Chromebook competition route), up the ladder (Mac competition route), side-the-ladder (Windows for Mobile), nothing worked.

I agree with the premise of this blog: A compatibility break (which equates to a new product line) with B2C Windows will definitely happen in the next 15 years.

But I disagree it will be a Windows themed Linux. It's too huge an effort and support overhead for guinea pigs.

My prediction is: A merger of Windows engineering division (which exists as a shared division now between B2C and B2B) into the Windows Enterprise workforce, laying off of the B2C workforce, and thereby making Windows B2C a severely dumbed-down version of Windows B2B where it becomes a new line that actually breaks compatibility with games and downloaded software.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#223

Post by p_ing »

tombert wrote: post #175
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/

I meant for installing on root though; these look like they're for "side drives"?

It's possible during setup though I'm not sure how supported it is. Not sure why you'd really want to, writes are much slower than NTFS in general due to journaling.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#225

Post by p_ing »

soraminazuki wrote: post #187
tombert wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NT is hybrid kernel, it has microkernel features, particularly with drivers if I understand correctly. But that said, I didn't say either were "good", I said that NT is "arguably better". ETA: I reread my comment; you're right, I actually said that NT "isn't bad at all". I stand by what I said mostly though; that doesn't imply it's "good" necessarily, just that it's arguably better than Linux.

NT is a monolithic kernel and "hybrid kernel" is a pure marketing term. You can move functionality out of the kernel into userspace or not. There is no in-between. I also don't get why people claim NT is "better." Linux is a modern kernel under very active development.

> I also don't get why people claim NT is "better."

Because it does do some things "better". All I/O is async. No stupid OOM. Personality support. Stable ABI.

> Linux is a modern kernel under very active development.

As is NT, on both accounts.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#226

Post by p_ing »

firesteelrain wrote: post #111
hougaard wrote: post #26

Because the "UX" of Windows sucks, Microsoft will switch the "Kernel" to Linux? I don't get the argument. There are parts of Windows I don't like, so I have chosen a 3rd-party (often open-source) replacement. The exact same process as I do on Linux. I don't see why I have to switch to Linux to have that freedom. (and to be honest, I don't care where the taskbar is)

Not just that; Active Directory is unmatched. That being said, Azure is already running a lot of Linux. So for backend, it’s somewhere between Linux and Windows depending on what you need to do But Azure also heavily runs Hyper V.

Azure runs Linux for networking and Windows (Azure Host OS) for services.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#227

Post by Numerlor »

p_ing wrote: post #223
tombert wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant for installing on root though; these look like they're for "side drives"?

It's possible during setup though I'm not sure how supported it is. Not sure why you'd really want to, writes are much slower than NTFS in general due to journaling.

NTFS getting corrupted by the tiniest errors would be one reason to use ReFS

Using it for the OS partition is not very well supported right now though (for a consumer), installing etc. works fine, but DISM doesn't support ReFS so adding features generally doesn't work

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#228

Post by imtringued »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #18
TacticalCoder wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux runs on billions of devices, including billions of phones, Internet routers, 100% of the world's Top 500 supercomputers, etc. This post makes lots of sense: Windows is and has always been (but it's getting worse now, as TFA notes) a turd whose level of turdiness cannot be understated. At some point they may just throw the towel in and use an OS that powers tens of billions of devices (which is where Linux is he…

In every case an enterprise is using Windows they are fundamentally not using the version that is getting worse. For a pricey enough SKU, every antifeature is actually optional. And in a lot of ways the underlying engineering of Windows remains superior, once you scrape away all of the layers of garbage the services offerings have foisted on it. Windows 10 Mobile was so much more performant than Android it isn't even…

>Linux OSes still have an annoying habit of not automatically recovering their disk drive when the power cuts out.

I don't know how to respond to this, because it seems like a statement so obviously untrue/false it might as well be slander. It's like saying the sky is red.

>The occasional moment you discover that shadow copies/journaling is like... not something Linux machines generally do unless you very specifically choose otherwise...

ext4 is the default and it is a journaling filesystem. The only other default I could possibly imagine is xfs on Redhat, but even that is a journaling filesystem. You must be really going out of your way to pick a filesystem that doesn't support journalling.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#229

Post by p_ing »

sznio wrote: post #196
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that the article is logically flawed. The user mode of the OS sucks, so let's run the same user mode with a different kernel? What? I don't care about configuration. I've had to do plenty of configuration on Linux as well; it's just different (text files instead of GPO/registry). I'm not sure I can list all the Arch Linux wiki articles I've read trying to get one driver or another feature working. I am n…

>The user mode of the OS sucks, Not from the perspective of Microsoft. It sells OneDrive and Office 365. It makes money from ads. >so let's run the same user mode with a different kernel? The kernel is a piece of legacy cruft that isn't necessary for selling OneDrive and Office 365. It's only a cost. Throw that out and replace with an off the shelf Linux kernel. With some minor tweaks, it can sell OneDrive too. Then…

> The kernel is a piece of legacy cruft that isn't necessary for selling OneDrive and Office 365.

The kernel is running OneDrive and Office 365. It's making money hand-over-fist.

Re: Prediction: Microsoft will eventually ship a Windows-themed Linux distro

#230

Post by philistine »

tombert wrote: post #104
hougaard wrote: post #26

Because the "UX" of Windows sucks, Microsoft will switch the "Kernel" to Linux? I don't get the argument. There are parts of Windows I don't like, so I have chosen a 3rd-party (often open-source) replacement. The exact same process as I do on Linux. I don't see why I have to switch to Linux to have that freedom. (and to be honest, I don't care where the taskbar is)

Yeah, I was about to say. The NT kernel isn’t bad at all; it’s arguably better than Linux. It’s just that an OS is more than a kernel, and pretty much all the other crap in Windows is terrible. Honestly, what I would like them to do is make/support a modern Copy on Write filesystem so that System Restore actually works , and so that it’s easy to roll back when Windows Update borks your PC. You don’t need Linux for ei…

Unfortunately the other crap is probably what’s going to get ported. They’ll maintain for a long while a backwards compatible version of Windows that they’ll sell for an arm and a leg, but they’ll try to move their uncaring customers to a Windows userland running on Linux.

That’s my belief, and I’m always looking for clues that it’s what develops into their long-term plan. Right now the only thing we could glean is reduced investments in Windows.

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