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Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

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Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#221
post #6

Calling Nvidia niche feels a bit wild given their status-quo right now, but from a foundry perspective, it seems true. Apple is the anchor tenant that keeps the lights on across 12 different mature and leading-edge fabs. Nvidia is the high-frequency trader hammering the newest node until the arb closes. Stability usually trades at a discount during a boom, but Wei knows the smartphone replacement cycle is the only pr…

Apple has to price in the risk of the US government forcing their hand in various ways. They have a negotiating disadvantage.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leader of China literally publicly told his military to have “all options for reunification of Taiwan ready by 2027” What options do you suppose the military might be working on? Training to surround, and blockade? (Check) Information warfare? (Check) Building high numbers of landing craft? (Check) Building high numbers of modular weapon systems that can rapidly increase the number of offensive ships? (Check) Bui…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China's_final_warning

Wow, I knew China were full of it but 900 final warnings?!

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#224
post #138
post #6

Calling Nvidia niche feels a bit wild given their status-quo right now, but from a foundry perspective, it seems true. Apple is the anchor tenant that keeps the lights on across 12 different mature and leading-edge fabs. Nvidia is the high-frequency trader hammering the newest node until the arb closes. Stability usually trades at a discount during a boom, but Wei knows the smartphone replacement cycle is the only pr…

So let's say TMSC reciprocated Apple's consistency as a customer by giving them preferential treatment for capacity. It's good business after all. However, everyone knows that good faith reciprocity at that scale is not rewarded. Apple is ruthless. There are probably thousands of untold stories of how hard Apple has hammered it's suppliers over the years. While Apple has good consumer brand loyalty, they arguably tre…

No public company will be loyal or nice to their suppliers. That is just not in the playbook for public companies. They have "fiduciary duty", not human duty.

Private companies can be nice to their suppliers. Owners can choose to stay loyal to suppliers they went to high school with, even if it isn't the most cost-efficient.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#226
post #39

It seems a bit odd that data center operators aren’t willing to put their money where their mouth is. Data center operators say: expand more quickly. TSMC says: we need long term demand to justify that. And all the data center guys say is: don’t worry that won’t be an issue, trust us. I would think that if they were serious they would commit to cofinancing new foundries or signing long term minimum purchasing agreeme…

Semiconductors is extremely cyclical. One of the reasons TSMC survived the previous boost-boom cycles is their caution. If you overexpand, you risk going out of business in the next downturn.

AFAIK only Apple has been commiting to wafers up to 3 years in the future. It would be a crazy bet for NVidia to do the same, as they don't know how big will be the business.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#227
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say TMSC reciprocated Apple's consistency as a customer by giving them preferential treatment for capacity. It's good business after all. However, everyone knows that good faith reciprocity at that scale is not rewarded. Apple is ruthless. There are probably thousands of untold stories of how hard Apple has hammered it's suppliers over the years. While Apple has good consumer brand loyalty, they arguably tre…

Counter argument is that is NVIDIA friendly to their supply chain? I have to think that maybe they are with their massive margins because they can be - their end buyer is currently willing to absorb costs at no expense. But I don't know, and that will change as their business changes. Your underlying statement implies that whoever is replacing apple is a better buyer which I don't think is necessarily true.

> EVGA Terminates Relationship With Nvidia, Leaves GPU Business

> According to Han, Nvidia has been difficult to work with for some time now. Like all other GPU board partners, EVGA is only told the price of new products when they're revealed to everyone on stage, making planning difficult when launches occur soon after. Nvidia also has tight control over the pricing of GPUs, limiting what partners can do to differentiate themselves in a competitive market.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/evga-terminates-relationsh...

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a bridge to sell you if you think that Apple is going to bring any of their manufacturing to the US...

I've seen the leaked BOMs, I'm not dumb enough to think that Americans can match it.

[dead]

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of that, fab industry is based on a short and mid term auction-like planning. If Nvidia pays more, Apple has to match.

> Regardless of that, fab industry is based on a short and mid term auction-like planning Not a system that necessarily works all that well if one player has a short-term ability to vastly outspending all the rest. You can't let all your other customers die just because Nvidia is flush with cash this quarter...

That's exactly how it is supposed to work and Apple has outspent competitors for ages getting prio.

TSMC isn't running a charity, it sells capacity to the highest bidder.

Of course customers as big as Apple will have a relationship and insane volumes that they will be guaranteed important quotes regardless.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#230

...and then China invades Taiwan, and nobody ain't getting nothing.

I feel like China invading Taiwan isn't happening in our lifetimes. Yes, they stand to benefit from it, but I doubt any of the people in charge of decision making are that interested in rocking the boat. There's nobody forcing their hand and the country is doing great without needing to invade anyone.

> Yes, they stand to benefit from it

They would benefit in what way?

Because their government seems to benefit a lot from Taiwan existing and being an enemy.

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