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Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

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Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#221
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the true mind boggle is you don't seem to realize just how much content the AI conpanies have stolen. What makes you think I don't realize it? Looks like your comment was generated by an LLM because that was an hallucination that is Not true at all. AI companies have stolen a lot of content for training. I AGREE with this. So have you. That content lives rent free in your head as your memory. It's the same c…

I think you are pointing out the exact conflation here. The commentor probably didn't steal a bunch of code, because it is possible to reason from first principles and rules and still end up being able to code as a human. It did not take me reading the entirety of available public code to be kind of okay at programming, I created my way to being kind of okay at programming. I was given some rules and worked with thos…

What’s being missed here is how fundamentally alien the starting point is.

A human does not begin at zero. A human is born with an enormous amount of structure already in place: a visual system that segments the world into objects, depth, edges, motion, and continuity; a spatial model that understands inside vs outside, near vs far, occlusion, orientation, and scale; a temporal model that assumes persistence through time; and a causal model that treats actions as producing effects. None of this has to be learned explicitly. A baby does not study geometry to understand space, or logic to understand cause and effect. The brain arrives preloaded.

Before you ever read a line of code, you already understand things like hierarchy, containment, repetition, symmetry, sequence, and goal-directed behavior. You know that objects don’t teleport, that actions cost effort, that symbols can stand in for things, and that rules can be applied consistently. These are not achievements. They are defaults.

An LLM starts with none of this.

It does not know what space is. It has no concept of depth, proximity, orientation, or object permanence. It does not know that a button is “on” a screen, that a window contains elements, or that left and right are meaningful distinctions. It does not know what vision is, what an object is, or that the world even has structure. At initialization, it does not even know that logic exists as a category.

And yet, we can watch it learn these things.

We know LLMs acquire spatial reasoning because they can construct GUIs with consistent layout, reason about coordinate systems, generate diagrams that preserve relative positioning, and describe scenes with correct spatial relationships. We know they acquire a functional notion of vision because they can reason about images they generate, anticipate occlusion, preserve perspective, and align visual elements coherently. None of that was built in. It was inferred.

But that inference did not come from code alone.

Code does not contain space. Code does not contain vision. Code does not contain the statistical regularities of the physical world, human perception, or how people describe what they see. Those live in diagrams, illustrations, UI mockups, photos, captions, instructional text, comics, product screenshots, academic papers, and casual descriptions scattered across the entire internet.

Humans don’t need to learn this because evolution already solved it for us. Our visual cortex is not trained from scratch; it is wired. Our spatial intuitions are not inferred; they are assumed. When we read code, we already understand that indentation implies hierarchy, that nesting implies containment, and that execution flows in time. An LLM has to reverse-engineer all of that.

That is why training on “just code” is insufficient. Code presupposes a world. It presupposes agents, actions, memory, time, structure, and intent. To understand code, a system must already understand the kinds of things code is about. Humans get that for free. LLMs don’t.

So the large, messy, heterogeneous corpus is not indulgence. It is compensation. It is how a system with no sensory grounding, no spatial intuition, and no causal priors reconstructs the scaffolding that humans are born with.

Once that scaffolding exists, the story changes.

Once the priors are in place, learning becomes local and efficient. Inside a small context window, an LLM can learn a new mini-language, adopt a novel set of rules, infer an unfamiliar API, or generalize from a few examples it has never seen before. No retraining. No new data ingestion. The learning happens in context.

This mirrors human learning exactly.

When you learn a new framework or pick up a new problem domain, you do not replay your entire lifetime of exposure. You learn from a short spec, a handful of examples, or a brief conversation. That only works because your priors already exist. The learning is cheap because the structure is already there.

The same is true for LLMs. The massive corpus is not what enables in-context learning; it is what made in-context learning possible in the first place.

The difference, then, is not that humans reason while LLMs copy. The difference is that humans start with a world model already installed, while LLMs have to build one from scratch. When you lack the priors, scale is not cheating. It is the price of entry.

But this is besides the point. We know for a fact that output from humans and LLMs are novel generalizations and not copies of existing data. It's easily proven by asking either a human or an LLM to write a program that doesn't exist in the universe and both the human and the LLM can readily do this. So in the end, both the human and the LLM have copied data in their minds and can generalize new data OFF of that copied data. It's just the LLM has more copied data while the human has less copied data, but both have copied data.

In fact the priors that a human is born with can even be described as copied data but encoded in our genes such that we our born with brains that inherit a learning bias optimized for our given reality.

That is what is missing. You look at speed of learning from training. The apt comparison in this case would be reconstructing a human brain neuron by neuron. If you want to compare how fast a human learns a new programming language with an LLM the correct comparison would thus be to compare with how fast an LLM learns a new programming language AFTER it has been trained and solely within inference in the context window.

In that case, it beats us. Hands down.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#223
I use Claude daily and I 100% disagree with the author. The article reeks of someone who doesn't understand how to manage context appropriately or describe their requirements, or know how to build up a task iteratively with a coding agent. If you have certain requirements or want things done in a certain way, you need to be explicit and the order of operations you do things in matters a lot in how efficient it completes the task, and the quality of the final output. It's very good at doing the least amount of work to just make something work by default, but that's not always what you want. Sometimes it is. I'd much rather prefer that as the default mode of operation than something that makes a project out of every little change.

The developers who aren't figuring out how to leverage AI tools and make them work for them are going to get left behind very quickly. Unless you're in the top tier of engineers, I'm not sure how one can blame the tools at this point.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#224
post #95
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience Claude is like a "good junior developer" We've been saying this for years at this point. I don't disagree with you[1], but when will these tools graduate to "great senior developer", at the very least? Where are the "superhuman coders by end of 2025" that Sam Altman has promised us? Why is there such a large disconnect between the benchmarks these companies keep promoting, and the actual real world…

I mean, I'm shipping a vast majority of my code nowadays with Opus 4.5 (and this isn't throwaway personal code, it's real products making real money for a real company). It only fails on certain types of tasks (which by now I kind of have a sense of). I still determine the architecture in a broad manner, and guide it towards how I want to organize the codebase, but it definitely solves most problems faster and better…

Can you tell us more about your product?

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like a lot of people keep falling into the trap of thinking we’ve hit a plateau, and that they can shift from “aggressively explore and learn the thing” mode to “teach people solid facts” mode. A week ago Scott Hanselman went on the Stack Overflow podcast to talk about AI-assisted coding. I generally respect that guy a lot, so I tuned in and… well it was kind of jarring. The dude kept saying things in this r…

On balance, there’s far more evidence to support the conclusion that language models have reached a plateau.

I’m not sure I agree, it doesn’t feel like we’re getting super linear growth year over year, but Claude opus 4.5 is able to do useful work over meaningful timescales without supervision. Is the code perfect? No, but that was certainly not true of model generations a year or two ago.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#226
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You compared a LLM blob of numbers to a child.

Everyone else compared them to college interns, I was being generous.

No, you were being arrogant and presumptuous, providing flawed analogies and using them as evidence for unfounded and ill-formed claims about the capabilities of frontier models.

Lack of knowledge is one thing, arrogance is another.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tech is moving so fast. Well that's exactly the problem : how can one say that? The entire process of evaluating what "it" actually does has been a problem from the start. Input text, output text ... OK but what if the training data includes the evaluation? This was ridiculous few years ago but then the scale went from some curated text datasets to... most of the Web as text, to most of the Web as text includin…

You know LLM's have been used to solve very hard previously unsolved math problems like some of the Erdos problems?

I do, and I read Tao's comments on his usage too, that still doesn't address what I wrote.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#228
post #166
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being able to type quickly and accurately reduces LLMs can generate code quickly. But there's no guarantee that it's syntactically, let alone semantically, accurate. > I feel that I'm learning faster because I'm not tripping over silly little things. I'm curious: what have you actually learned from using LLMs to generate code for you? My experience is completely the opposite. I learn nothing from running generated…

> LLMs can generate code quickly. But there's no guarantee that it's syntactically, let alone semantically, accurate. This has been a non-issue with self-correcting models and in-context learning capabilities for so long that saying it today highlights highly out of date priors.

You're referring to tools that fetch content from the web, read my data on disk, and feed it to the models?

I can see how that would lead to a better user experience, but those are copouts. The reality is that the LLM tech without it still has the same issues it has had all along.

Besides, I'll be damned if I allow this vibe coded software to download arbitrary data from the web on my behalf, scan my disk, and share it with companies I don't trust. So when, and if, I can do so safely and keep it under my control, I'll give it a try. Until then, I'll use the "dumb" versions of these models, feed them context manually myself, and judge them based purely on their actual performance.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know LLM's have been used to solve very hard previously unsolved math problems like some of the Erdos problems?

That Erdos problem solution is believed by quite a few to be a previous result found in the literature, just used in a slightly different way. It also seems not a lack of progress but simply no one cared to give it a go. That’s a really fantastic capability, but not super surprising.

You're thinking of a previous report from a month ago, #897 or #481, or the one from two weeks ago, #728. There's a new one from a week ago, #205, which is genuinely novel, although it is still a relatively "shallow" result.

Terence Tao maintains a list [1] of AI attempts (successful and otherwise). #205 is currently the only success in section 1, the "full solution for which subsequent literature review did not find new relevant prior partial or full solutions" section - but it is in that section.

As to speed, as far as I know the recent results are all due to GPT 5.2, which is barely a month old, or Aristotle, which is a system built on top of some frontier LLMs and which has only been accessible to the public for a month or two. I have seen multiple mathematicians report that GPT-5.2 is a major improvement in proof-writing, e.g. [2]

[1] https://github.com/teorth/erdosproblems/wiki/AI-contribution...

[2] https://x.com/AcerFur/status/1999314476320063546

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#230
post #203

> Claude can’t create good abstractions on its own LLMs definitely can create abstractions and boundaries. e.g. most will lean towards a pretty clean front end vs backend split even without hints. Or work out a data structure that fits the need. Or splits things into free standing modules. Or structure a plan into phases. So this really just boils down to „good” abstractions which is subject to model improvement. I r…

There's a difference between "can generate" and "can create [from scratch]". Of course LLMs can generate code that reflects common patterns in the stuff it was trained, such as frontend/backend splits, since this is precisely what they are trained to be able to do. Coming up with a new design from scratch, designing (or understanding) a high level architecture based on some principled reasoning, rather than cargo cul…

Certainly there is space for designs a LLM can't come up with, but lets be real senior developers are not cranking out never seen before novel architectures routinely any more than physicists are coming up with never thought of theories that work weekly.

It's largely the same patterns & principles applied in a tailored manner to the problem at hand, which LLMs can...with mixed success...do.

>human parity

Impact is not felt when the hardest part of the problem is cracked, but rather the easy parts.

If you have 100 humans making widgets and the AI can do 75% of the task then you've suddenly got 4 humans competing for every 1 remaining widget job. This is going to be lord of the flies in job market long before human parity.

>I'd predict it's at least 10-20 years out

For AGI probably, but I think by 2030 this will have hit society like a freight train...and hopefully we've figured out what we'll want to do about it by then too. UBI or whatever...because we'll have to.

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