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Indifference is a power (2015)

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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#221

Post by svat »

tasuki wrote: post #217
svat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some other translations of that passage (Enchiridion 26): https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:e,ec,twh,twr,gl,... - The first part says: if you shrug off someone else's cup being broken as just an accident, you should also do the same when yours gets broken. - Then he clearly says “Apply now the same principle to the matters of greater importance.” - The last part says that if you respond to someone…

There's logic to prevent you from viewing more than five translations at one time, but I'm happy to see you got right past that by url-hacking. It breaks the layout a little bit and makes the site even worse on mobile. I see you included all the translations except Stephen Walton's. Yes he took some liberties, but I like it anyway :)

Thanks for making this site; I love it and have returned to it many times. (I don't mind the layout with all translations even on mobile; I just rotate my phone or decrease font size.) I read through the whole thing recently. (https://twitter.com/svat/status/2004591889010643102)

Thanks also for making it open-source. I used it for a blog post about a story I remembered from my school textbook :) https://shreevatsa.net/post/bazin-letter-box/ -> https://shreevatsa.net/bazin-letter-box/

Stephen Walton's translation is actually my favourite! I omitted it here because this is HN and likely someone would complain the translation is clearly incorrect because it talks about “Your neighbor’s car gets hit in a parking lot”. But to include it too just for completeness :) https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:e,ec,twh,twr,gl,...

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#222

Post by zxcvasd »

Aurornis wrote: post #121
andsoitis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t the fault of an ancient philosophy that modern humans twist it into superficial slob. It certainly isn’t an indictment against Stoicism.

> It isn’t the fault of an ancient philosophy As I said, I’m talking about the article and the pseudo-stoicism pushed on social media

[dead]

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#223

Post by jrm4 »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I'll take this further and I'm not sure if I've seen it anywhere, but I feel like humor is an absolutely necessary component to any philosophy or life practice in this direction.

In a way, this is an idea that to me, rises above perhaps the specifics of all of these isms. People from Dave Chappelle to Kurt Vonnegut really get this.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#224

Post by tasuki »

svat wrote: post #221
tasuki wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's logic to prevent you from viewing more than five translations at one time, but I'm happy to see you got right past that by url-hacking. It breaks the layout a little bit and makes the site even worse on mobile. I see you included all the translations except Stephen Walton's. Yes he took some liberties, but I like it anyway :)

Thanks for making this site; I love it and have returned to it many times. (I don't mind the layout with all translations even on mobile; I just rotate my phone or decrease font size.) I read through the whole thing recently. ( https://twitter.com/svat/status/2004591889010643102 ) Thanks also for making it open-source. I used it for a blog post about a story I remembered from my school textbook :) https://shreevatsa.…

I'm very glad to hear all that! My goal was to make it easy to use, so the following part of your blog post (2019!) absolutely made my day:

> The software too pleasantly just worked, with no setup or install required: just clone the sample app, change the filenames and in index.html as it mentions. It’s a joy when that happens.

Suffice to say, many people haven't had as much success as you: they fumbled around for 10-20 commits and ended up with something broken. I think requiring people to edit json is just too much :)

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#225

Post by herdymerzbow »

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

I thought the darkest thing you were going to point to was the matter of fact reference to the role of the slave as the inadvertent cup breaker! Some wonderfully insightful thoughts on how to manage one's emotions when confronted by life's challenges, of which I think are worth reading, but taking for granted the other human whose life is not their own and who is treated as (valuable) property by the philosopher is pretty dark to me.

I'm guessing that the institution of slavery was part of the entire imperial project of conquest so even if their conscience was briefly troubled it would've fallen into the 'so it goes' basket. But it does seem strange to the modern reader.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#226

Post by Jblx2 »

baseballdork wrote: post #182
matwood wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average young person probably does nothing at all. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Some percentage of people will come to Stoicism via an influencer and continue to dig.

The contention is with "good". Is it good to have a bunch of people becoming emotionally stunted in case a handful dig further? Presumably there were people moved to stoicism prior to the current influencer trend, is that not good enough?

>a bunch of people becoming emotionally stunted

Do we have data that estimates how often people regress to become emotionally stunted from any cause (Stoicism, other philosophical readings, alcohol/drug abuse, Alzehimer's/other neurodegenerative conditions)?

https://www.google.com/search?q=emotionally+stunted

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#227

Post by eudamoniac »

Aurornis wrote: post #66

I find classic Stoicism interesting, but these modern social media and influencer versions of Stoicism feel like something else entirely. The heading and subheading of this article invoke ideas of indifference and warriors and prisoners. This appeals to frustrated people, more often men, who are struggling with emotional regulation and want a solution that feels like a tough response. Maybe there’s something useful i…

Right, they're barely related ideologies. If someone took up "Christianity" based on popular Reddit conception of what it is, getting their information via YouTube or whatever, it's going to be something very distant from Christianity. It's unfortunate they have seized the public understanding of the term.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#228

Post by abandonliberty »

Aurornis wrote: post #102
zozbot234 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. You're encouraged to work through your emotions proactively and in depth (the Stoics encouraged askesis which literally means 'training' or 'exercise') so that they don't adversely affect you and others down the road. Of course, you should also learn how to counter these effects in the mom…

> Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. I’m not disagreeing with this. I understand classic stoicism, but I’ve also seen the effects of modern pseudo-stoicism as pushed by influencers and social media. Focusing on stoicism and trying to dodge the effects of your emotions is a reasonable strategy for someone who is truly stuck…

I'd recommend something like Breakfast with Seneca. It's an awesome read, and should hopefully help to differentiate the philosophy or school of stoicism and whatever we have now.

We're still human, and the collaborative problem solving the ancients did still applies today. That much of the concepts survived and maintained relevance from ancient Greece, to Rome, to now lends them a certain 'time tested' quality.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#229

Post by tsunamifury »

iammjm wrote: post #109
tsunamifury wrote: post #68

While stoicism was not invented by Marcus Aurelius the particular flavor referred to these days was and let’s be absolutely clear what it was: Stoicism was Aurelius ways to justify mass death and conquering of an empire while creating a mental patterns that roughly said “don’t worry too much about.”

Did you actually ever read something by Aurelius?

Have you? Please refute this.

Do you know any history of his rule? He was the bloodiest most expansionist and slave oriented emperor of otherwise the most oppressive empires in all of history.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#230

Post by matwood »

raffael_de wrote: post #215
matwood wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of practicing Stoicism is to bring emotions up to the understanding, examining, and choosing level. You still have emotions, but you don't let them control you. I love JiuJitsu because many parts of it are like microcosms of life. The first time someone lays on you and you feel like you can't breath, you panic. That's an emotion. After a few times you realize you can breath and eventually you will feel the panic…

I would actually argue that the sensation from experiencing asphyxiation is not really an emotion but instead one of the most fundamental sensations any life form will experience. Just saying as I already argued that ratio is a layer above emotions. Having said that, Jujutsu (as well as all forms of martial arts and sports) are intertwined with emotional experience and needs. Jujutsu for example is probably one of th…

Keep in mind, you’re not actually asphyxiating in this case. It’s just uncomfortable to have someone in your space, feeling closed in, etc… it’s all emotion.

Thats different from actually being choked and tapping to end the fight.

Also, BJJ has been one of the biggest unlocks in my personal growth and stoicism journey. Things that used to make me uncomfortable or annoy me in daily simply don’t. I’m not externalizing my negative emotions, I’ve just become better at dealing with them through repeated challenges. Early on my teacher told me that everyone loses, but the difference between white and black belts is the black will be calm thinking how to escape until the very end. Contrast the white belt who loses control and flails around accomplishing nothing.

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